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contedesfees  
#1 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 6:04:01 PM(UTC)
contedesfees

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I today received an email from *deleted* informing me that I should update to Poser 11.2 on Sept 19, describing it as a "'bridge' release". The following paragraphs read as follows:


But the main reason for the update is the depreciation of Smith Micro's licensing system and implementation of Bondware's licensing management for versions above Poser 10.
If you do not update, your Poser may not work if you have a version above Poser 10 because the licensing system will not be able to complete the over-the-internet check needed to confirm your license key.
If you want your Poser to continue to work, you must update.


In other words, pay *deleted* $US99.00 to upgrade to Poser 11.2, or else!


Bare-faced extortion, if you ask me.


Live long and render
diogenese19348  
#2 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 6:37:31 PM(UTC)
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I would tend to thank Smith Micro for saddling you with software that has to call home to the mothership every time you use it. Another reason I never bought Poser past 2012. I'm assuming you have version 11 in some form since 10 and below doesn't need upgrading.

Knowing that Rendo tries to work with it's customers, you probably ought to send an e-mail to them to discuss what options are available. I wouldn't use the word "extortion" in it ;).

You might want to point out to them that software that does that period is less useful. DAZ took the hint with their little foray into DRM a while back and stopped the practice.

Adobe does that with CC, and I'm really thinking of looking for other software over it, the learning curves for what I do are just too ominous to do that lightly. But I don't like software that doesn't work if my Internet connection goes down.
They make clothes for V4? Why??
ProtocolZero  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 6:54:43 PM(UTC)
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I can sorta see why *deleted* is doing this. IMO, Smith Micro should have found some way to continue providing the online registration/activation service that their Poser 11 users require (at least for a while), or to provide some sort of permanent key instead (and only covering up to the final version released by SM). *deleted* has acquired the rights to Poser -- and all of the responsibility and liability, too -- without having made a dime from the deal so far, and whatever work they've done to ensure that Poser continues to function has to be paid for somehow. $100 to essentially repurchase a license for a product you've already bought does seem a bit much, tho'.
contedesfees  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 7:43:02 PM(UTC)
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Strictly speaking, the notice from *deleted*/Bondware did not state that users must pay to upgrade to Poser 11.2. It stated the following: "If you want your Poser to continue to work, you must update."

Because the upgrade price for Poser Pro 11 displayed at the web site is $US99.00, I assumed the same amount would be charged to update to Poser 11.2 on Sept. 19. I read nothing to contradict that assumption. There was, I underline, no suggestion that this update will be free of charge to current, licensed users of Poser 10, Poser Pro 2014, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11. Simply, to quote it again: If you want your Poser to continue to work, you must update.

And, if my assumption is correct, I still say: this is blatant extortion of Poser loyalists. We are being forced to pay a second time for software we already bought and paid for. (John Gotti Lives!)

Edited by user Monday, September 16, 2019 7:45:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Live long and render
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Masterstroke on 9/16/2019(UTC)
matt  
#5 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 7:59:17 PM(UTC)
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I got that email this morning, too. Since I switched to Studio several years ago, I didn't give it much thought. But hearing this...that's some bullshit. I dropped Poser and switched to Studio because I was tired of paying for every new release, and then looking at what Studio could do, for FREE, that Poser simply could not do. So I sucked it up and started to learn new software. I'm pleased that I did. I would be as pissed as the rest of you are if I'd stuck with the platform.


This is not one of those 'Studio is better' posts. Both programs have their faults, and their pluses. But '*deleted*needs to rethink this shit. Telling you that a program that you've bought and paid for and have been using for years will not work in 3 days unless you pay them is nonsense.  This should be a FREE update, and then they can charge for whatever full release comes down the pipe next. I'm honestly disappointed with them.


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Masterstroke on 9/16/2019(UTC), contedesfees on 9/16/2019(UTC)
diogenese19348  
#6 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 8:04:09 PM(UTC)
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The answer appears to be if you own Poser Pro 11 already the updates thus far are free, if you own Poser 11 it is being phased out and you need to buy Poser Pro 11. If you have anything older than 11 you aren't effected by this upgrade or not as you wish.

So owners of Poser 11 are taking the hit. Again, I would ask about that politely, they may do something for you if you are in that boat. Particularly if a large number of people in that position speak up.
They make clothes for V4? Why??
diogenese19348  
#7 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 8:23:44 PM(UTC)
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As a completely disinterested DAZ user, I would say Poser 11 users have a point, you can get that $99 price from pretty much the ownership of any older version of Poser. There probably should be some kind of price break for Poser 11 users. There may well be if you ask customer service about it. I'd be curious to know how many people bought Poser 11 (not Pro). Anybody on this thread have it?
They make clothes for V4? Why??
contedesfees  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 8:50:56 PM(UTC)
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The notice I received read: " If you do not update, your Poser may not work if you have a version above Poser 10 . . ."

I presume that means Poser 10, Poser Pro 2014, Poser 11, and Poser Po 11. Those are the versions above Poser 10 after all. The notice makes no distinction between these four versions and clearly implies that all four are subject to the update policy. I don't know how else to interpret it.


 


Live long and render
diogenese19348  
#9 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 10:07:57 PM(UTC)
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Rendo specifically says the upgrades are free for owners of Poser Pro 11 on the forum. Poser Pro 2014 would have the issue I guess, my bet is there are more people with that one than Poser 11 Basic. Version above Poser 10 would indicate Poser 10 doesn't have the problem to us mathematicians anyway. If Poser Pro 2014 is the side grade to that it shouldn't have the problem either. When did Smith Micro add the call the mothership "feature" to Poser? Someone must have convinced them that the reason they weren't selling more copies is there was too much piracy of it rather than their marketing was worthless.
They make clothes for V4? Why??
contedesfees  
#10 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 10:51:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: diogenese19348 Go to Quoted Post
Rendo specifically says the upgrades are free for owners of Poser Pro 11 on the forum.


That's what Glitterati3D wrote. The message I received from *deleted*/Bondware, which I necessarily interpret as official, made no such claim. And frankly, if they meant to write "starting with Poser 11," wouldn't they have written "starting with Poser 11?" I interpret "above Poser 10" as meaning Poser 10 and above. I will make no grave objection to learning that I am wrong, but at the moment . . .

Edited by user Monday, September 16, 2019 10:59:15 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Live long and render
rbug02  
#11 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 10:55:50 PM(UTC)
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Well I have gone through all their information and even though there is nothing that says you have to pay to upgrade there is also nothing that allows a free download of the upgrade...... Now this could be my personal problem, like MasterStroke I too have been removed from the roles of Rendo. So I think my poser will die, Oh well never use it anymore anyway.......


 


Ok well just went back there, with alternate identity, here is the poop. upgrade will cost $99.00 US funds to upgrade. I tried to update my existing poser through the update button and it just turned gray nothing updated. So without buying the new version I guess we are out in the cold.....Does that surprise anyone about Rendo. Not be for sure.

Edited by user Monday, September 16, 2019 11:05:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I'm here for the donuts.....
Where are they??
Chaosophia  
#12 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 11:19:58 PM(UTC)
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Money Grab maybe. I have Poser 10, and I very rarely even open it now since Studio has dynamic controls. But it does rub me the wrong way, that if I wanted to open it up after said deadline, I may have problems doing so because they didn't bother to come up with a viable solution to this prior to the ending of their license agreement. But I personally am not surprised by this. 


I'm curious to see if they drag this out then announce a fix after "after all the commotion" 


I could be wrong, and this is all speculation, but they did pay a lot for it, maybe the sales aren't as they expected, and they are feeling it. 


Couldn't they just incorporate the Smith Micro database into their own? Might take a little programming, but that would ease a lot of headaches over this. Sure don't support older versions, but have it available to older version users. Like, Final version Download, enter serial one time, boom it works offline. They had an email database to send out mail to all previous users, wouldn't it be similar to do so with the email-serial numbers assigned to user. That act alone would put trust in the future of the program. I mean honestly. The way this is feeling from the delivery of this news, they may have just divided and pushed away the people who were waiting to see what they were going to do to advance it since Smith Micro has neglected it for so long. The vibe when they obtained the rights was very positive for the most part. I just don't see how this move is going to advance it or them any. But I guess we will see what happens. Who knows...


diogenese19348  
#13 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 11:25:54 PM(UTC)
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I can't see a definitive answer either way, and since I don't own a copy of anything past Poser 2012 which I never actually bothered using there's only so much interest I have in the answer. If I had a copy of Poser Pro 11 I would be doing a lot more to find out ;) I've been a rendo customer since 2011 though and have never had a problem with them or the forums. What are you guys doing to get yourselves banned? :P
They make clothes for V4? Why??
shadoman  
#14 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 11:29:31 PM(UTC)
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I have Poser pro 11 on one of my PC's with all the service upgrades from Smith Micro.


I took the liberty of loading Pro 11 on another PC.  Mind you I mae sure the Poser 11 pro on the older PC was not opperating or I would have gotten the license for only a single machine message.  It loaded an allowed me to input the l number keys and is up and running with one glitch.  the old smith micro download manager does no show the old service releases for Poser 11.


So I will look into the upgrade on the 19 and see what it entails.


With that said  I am not a big fan of P-11 as when I bought it,  many of my textures that SSS shading would not run in the superfly rendering engine and I was not a fan out the library display  So I keep running and using Pro 2014 and to date have had no problems as smith micro stopped supporting it @ 180 days after the release of P-11. 


I do not like Dawn or Dusk nor do I need the hivewire horse and dog  so I;m not sure what I will do if I have to pay for an upgrade


 


Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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contedesfees on 9/16/2019(UTC)
contedesfees  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, September 17, 2019 1:26:56 AM(UTC)
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Well, it seems that I have been terribly hasty. I've just learned that only users of Poser Pro 2014, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11 will be impacted by the update and that those users will receive a free update after all. I've been untoward and have created a tempest in a virtual teapot. In my own defense, I will observe that the original email I received could not have been interpreted in another manner. It offered a blunt demand to update and no further details. All the same, I was wrong. My sincere apologies to all.


Live long and render
Sutut  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 17, 2019 2:42:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees Go to Quoted Post


Well, it seems that I have been terribly hasty. I've just learned that only users of Poser Pro 2014, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11 will be impacted by the update and that those users will receive a free update after all. I've been untoward and have created a tempest in a virtual teapot. In my own defense, I will observe that the original email I received could not have been interpreted in another manner. It offered a blunt demand to update and no further details. All the same, I was wrong. My sincere apologies to all.



 


 


I appreciate the updates.


Being in the middle of making my comics and testing imported Zbrush stuff in it I am very uneager to play "Crash Test Dummy" to whatever team Smith Micro sold the property to.  Luckily I got confirmation based on some forum posts I'm eligible for free upgrade.  I'll likely secure the license but wait as long as possible.  Considering one delay I expect another.  Relatively new, high spec Dell computer native with Windows 10 so should be OK.


 


Overall I get "Don't fix what ain't broken" vibes big time.  Well Poser is a crazy mis-used pretzel of software with a legacy as twisted as Flash and could use some good improvements.  Still used to what I'm used to.


Chaosophia  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, September 17, 2019 2:29:08 PM(UTC)
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I wouldn't say hasty, more out of concern for your paid for assets. Always sucks when a place delivers vague news upon launching new goals, or limitations. And more than often now, when places do this, it is a let's see if we can get over move, one has to be assertive with what they will put up with. Especially if it affects your own business.
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contedesfees on 9/17/2019(UTC)
diogenese19348  
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:09:28 AM(UTC)
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Just got the e-mail announcing the release and it is a free update to any of the affected versions. I imagine it will generate about the same amount of griping from people who paid for Pro ahead of time that DAZ did when they made Studio 4.0 free (and took their time straightening out the mess, I was one of the people that paid for it). Here's the applicable text from the e-mail:


But the main reason for the update is the depreciation of Smith Micro's licensing system and implementation of Bondware's licensing management for some versions above Poser 10 (Poser 2014 Game Dev, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11). This update will convert your Poser to Poser Pro 11.2 at no additional cost.
They make clothes for V4? Why??
shadoman  
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:37:09 PM(UTC)
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well the day has come and from what I have read the upgrade is free if you own any version of P11 you just need your p-11 serial number and have to jump through a few hoops I will have more time tomorrow to grab it even though I do not use pro 11 per say,  but since I own it wny not take advantage of a freebie and I will place it on my newest PC


Will report on the upgrade when I can


 


Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
diogenese19348  
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:51:46 PM(UTC)
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Ah, just came across a post on Rendo that explains the whole thing. It makes more sense now. Those are actually all the same software. Smith Micro was dumbing them down based on the serial number. Sounds like something that Smith Micro would do.

"@ Kerya. The update is for PP2014 GD, P11 and P11Pro. Those versions of Poser use the SM license server which will stop working for those particular programs only. That means that if you have one of the three versions I've listed, your software will crap out when the SM license servers stop listening to Poser requests for authorization. Other SM programs will continue to function with the SM license server as they always have.

The version of Poser you use has always been tied to the SN. The same download that gave you standard also gave you Pro. It just required the correct SN to unlock the extra features. Bondware's new license server will simply stop issuing dumbed down serial numbers. All Poser features will unlock with your new upgraded sn. That is what all versions moving to pro is all about. Everything is in your Poser. It just may not have been unlocked before due to the serial number being a non-pro number.

Only Poser users from Game Dev onward need worry about this. PP2014 without the GD upgrade will work as normal. Versions previous did not require a "call home" then and will not require one now. Patches and tech support for PP2014 and lower will stop. There will only be a single version of Poser from now on. You've had everything all along anyway. It was only your serial number that artificially made more than one product."
They make clothes for V4? Why??
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