Renderotica

Originally Posted by: slack71

Nothing you've said convinces me that it is still real 3d art. Art? yes. but it only imitates 3d. It is sites like this where those that do have issues with lighting or environments hone their skills and get better. What is there to hone about AI? Forming a better description of what you want?

Ever seen what people's first AI efforts look like? They're uniformly terrible -- mine as well. It takes a lot of work to learn how to make an acceptable image. My first efforts were horribly mangled, there's a lot to learn in how to make these things work acceptably. That wasn't so much reworking the wording, it was workflow, understanding the software, taking pieces, sending them back to Photoshop or inpainiting in SD.

Originally Posted by: slack71

I am not saying it does not take some form of skill but the skill set is entirely different. There is effort and care put into any 3d rendered scene, no matter how simple or basic it might be. I just do not see the same effort and care placed into a descriptive sentence. They are entirely different forms of art and should be treated as such. Barring that, you might as well open the site up to and drawn art, painting, photos, etc because, what's the difference right?

Um . . . do you know what it takes to create something that looks good - using Daz, or, say Stable Diffusion?

You can do a low effort render and it'll look ordinary. You can do the same in Stable Diffuson.

. . . but if you want something with any interest at all -- you're going to have to do more than that.

Neither program has a "make art" button . . .

Edited by user Tuesday, March 21, 2023 9:18:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

fuck ya topspin! Nice implementation of the control net or img2img. I don't know what's allowed here or not as far as celebs, so I won't post my Mona Lisa Challange from *deleted*, but we are only at the opening stages of opensource GUI, like what 6-9 months? So things will only get better.

Someone said it's like 3d... yes, 100%. It's like 3d, like physically based render engines calculating photons of light and reflecting back to tell us what kind of surface it is. I remember when poser users didnt have that... don't take something this advanced for granted!

Edited by moderator Wednesday, March 22, 2023 12:34:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Darkseal attached the following image(s):

Darkseal's Store

I could go on, but I don't want to.... abduct the thread. I'd love to see anyone remake any of the images above in poser or daz. I think the quality is great. I'd be happy to start photoshopping on top of any of these as a starting point in "making art". The below I taught the ai some alien concepts but also mixed in many renders of my "Real Skin for Grey Alien". You can see my zbrush brush strokes in many of the images I have... not included too many I hope. I have SOOOO many different examples and catagories. Star Trek is a fav. I have fantasy genre of goblins and orcs... dungeons of bdsm... backrooms... you name it I can make it with some time, just like poser. I haven't even started using my renders as a starting point, which I plan to start doing soon if text 2 video takes too long to come out.

Edited by user Wednesday, March 22, 2023 12:36:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Darkseal attached the following image(s):

Darkseal's Store

Originally Posted by: rollemops

So far I've always defended AI (though I wouldn't use it myself) ... but for a few days now (around 3/18-23) the gallery is not only saturated, but flooded with soulless, uninspired AI images. This makes it hard for me to continue defending AI, as exactly what was to be expected is occurring: cheap and cheaper AI thrills for the mainstream aka "Boobs'n'Pussies? YEAH!

Yes, this is stuff coming from apps like "starryai" and Pornpen. . . this stuff  -- is copy machine boring. I actually posted on a comment on one of his posts asking him to to restrict posts to new things, which have some novel content.

It is %100 true that AI applications create the possibility of producing thousands of absolutely generic images  that no one is going to want to see

As with Daz -- I could run a script or animation, and quickly produce hundreds of images of a model

No one wants to see that, and no one wants to see a thousand pix of "random blonde, random redhead, etc"

So I am sympathetic -- its up to everyone to post their _best_ work, not just iteration n+1

On my desktop machine -- I can produce something on the order of 60 1024 x 1024 generations per hour - eg hundreds per day.

I'm looking to create something good and interesting each day, one or two images. . . if I posted a thousand, you'd be right to be frustrated.

i guess, just real quick without posting more pics.... If you asked me to give you "mothman in a forest" I can, but I have so many tools here now that I can make him in an infinite amount of ways, in an infinite amount of places, in a minute or two. In poser... I would have to make a mothman, first in 3d or morph, and or kitbash one together, make the scene from 3d meshes or get a background from somewhere to hdri. I mean, I can make a totally custom mothman to teach to the ai too, but the speed difference is deafening. The results are spectacular (imo) for pieces I don't do post work on. Lighting, time, feel, all can be adjusted on the fly. film settings, film and camera (kodak, sony, fuji, etc..) can all be changed too.

Edited by user Wednesday, March 22, 2023 2:37:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Darkseal's Store

Originally Posted by: Darkseal

WHat would it take for any one of us to put any one of these scenes together? If I asked you tomorrow to render me a astronaut cumming on the outside window of the space station above earth, could you? How about Yoda getting nailed in a dirty bathroom for $20 to spend on crack? I know a lot of us all have huge runtimes. I myself have the octane plugin for rendering. I have zbrush, maya, blender, etc.... I could not reach these results. Yes, in realism, but in scene content as well. Also, the time it takes to phototshop some concepts together. The time savigns, the fast interation of concepts, it's just endless.

I didn't make up my mind about finally. Maybe it‘s not about the result or effectiveness but about the human struggle so here the hard work in the process to accomplish something. To make this more clear... nobody is interested to watch a sports event between androids or humans with body enhancements – this makes anything meaningless.

Originally Posted by: rollemops

@Darkseal

"If I asked you tomorrow to render me a astronaut cumming on the outside window of the space station above earth, could you?"

Why should I?


.... I can Like what I like - without feeling threatened or competed by AI.

I wasn't asking you to, I think you missed the point. I was talking about scene content. I know that's the elephant in the room in a place I sell scene content for...

No one should feel threatened by ai, that's my WHOLE point. Do people feel threatened by the advancement of transportation like a spaceship or a car that drives itself instead of walking everywhere? Oops. Wait... Do people feel threatened by the advancement of cures and vaccines... ok, rewind. Do people feel threatened by scientific advancement in clean burning oil, the second most abundant resource on the planet?... ok another bad one, rewind... do people get threatened when ....etc... People always feel threatened by advancement. It's uncomfortable by definition.

Darkseal's Store

Originally Posted by: Darkseal

No one should feel threatened by ai, that's my WHOLE point. Do people feel threatened by the advancement of transportation like a spaceship or a car that drives itself instead of walking everywhere? Oops. Wait... Do people feel threatened by the advancement of cures and vaccines... ok, rewind. Do people feel threatened by scientific advancement in clean burning oil, the second most abundant resource on the planet?... ok another bad one, rewind... do people get threatened when ....etc... People always feel threatened by advancement. It's uncomfortable by definition.

Depends on the perspective. Of course people feel threatened by climate change or nukes which is both a consequence of "scientific advancement". If you change the view angle, you have to fear mankind which is mentally not up to their tech and isn‘t able to foresee and handle the consequences. This applies in particular to AI.

Originally Posted by: BoobsAcademy

Of course people feel threatened by climate change or nukes which is both a consequence of "scientific advancement". If you change the view angle, you have to fear mankind which is mentally not up to their tech and isn‘t able to foresee and handle the consequences. This applies in particular to AI.

that's my WHOLE point. reread, it was sarcasm. Being afraid and knowing people are afraid should activate the frontal cortex and come to a conclusion. Fear is the mind killer.... Do you remove your hand from the box and risk total annihilation? Or do you let it pass through you so that only you remain?

I just think it's a huge waste for this community to not roll with the times and use those runtimes to make amazing pieces. That's really all. I only really wished to come here and find like minded people to share this awesome journey with. Especially ones who have the tools to craft pre-composed scenes and layouts for artist framing while obeying the classic aesthetic (rule of thirds/lighting techniques/body styles/etc...)

You all see that new Adobe firefly? What do you all think when Adobe does it? Looking pretty slick with those morph sliders on faces like poser/daz....no?

Darkseal attached the following image(s):

Darkseal's Store

Originally Posted by: topspin

Too much of the AI work that I'm seeing posted is boring, repetitive and artless.

Nothing new under the sun. The same than Poser, Daz or any rendering program. 

Let the viewer to decide if it's art and erotic or not.

Or maybe the discussion has a easy solution: ban in RENDER-otica everything that isn't a RENDER. Kill photographs. Kill 2D. Kill writting and poetry.Kill AI. Welcome again, Middle Age of Art.

Over the years 3D artists creating their own scenes from Zero despised Poser, as if you are an artist doing something with 3DStudio, Maya or Blender but not the same if you do it with Poser.

This controversy doesn't make sense HERE. Let the children play.-