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Maybe Rendo is in worse shape than we thought
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They're hawking Amazon Prime memberships now. They have a new post talking about all the great benefits of joining Amazon Prime. The "facepalm" part is they don't mention that if you click on their link they get a sign-up fee. That's a bit weasly on their part 
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I'm not sure how they benefited from buying Poser, which did not seem to be doing very well at the time. (This is all about the financials, not about the quality of the product. If there's a war, Daz already won it during the time of Genesis 2/3 when Iray came online. As imperfect as it is, dForce is just buring the knife deeper. At least the PBR works.)
Sure, they want to keep it alive to support their vendors, but was it a financial decision? Are the future cash flows from Poser/Rosity sales going to exceed the cash flows of leaving well alone?
I don't understand that purchase at all. Supporting software development is not cheap. It's very different to hire full-time dev work than to have a network of vendors who provide content.
Maybe if you FOSS the whole Poser platform, it might work. Can Poser live as FOSS? Can Renderosity flush that purchase price away?
Renderosity needs to earn back whatever they paid for it, and whatever they need to pay the devs who work on it. If they bring all the devs in house, I don't understand how they can afford it. I don't understand how they could afford to pay any amount of money for a dying platform.
I hope they didn't leverage themselves too badly. The Daz store is alive and well, though.
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I think that with the creation of La Femme, Poser has a platform that might work with Renderosity.
Obviously they looked into all the financial beforehand and thought the risk worthwhile
Yes the DAZ store is alive and thriving but think what might happen without a poser format. Competition has been known to keep prices for things in check if DAZ were the only show on the planet, they might get greedy or now, but you never know
From what I read a few of the development folks from smith micro are joining rendo and they have already mention that when the time is right they will have a new version of P-11 for everyone to download that will be compatable with the new rendo release of the software
Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
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Originally Posted by: cheesymaid 
I'm not sure how they benefited from buying Poser, which did not seem to be doing very well at the time. (This is all about the financials, not about the quality of the product. If there's a war, Daz already won it during the time of Genesis 2/3 when Iray came online. As imperfect as it is, dForce is just buring the knife deeper. At least the PBR works.)
Sure, they want to keep it alive to support their vendors, but was it a financial decision? Are the future cash flows from Poser/Rosity sales going to exceed the cash flows of leaving well alone?
I don't understand that purchase at all. Supporting software development is not cheap. It's very different to hire full-time dev work than to have a network of vendors who provide content.
Maybe if you FOSS the whole Poser platform, it might work. Can Poser live as FOSS? Can Renderosity flush that purchase price away?
Renderosity needs to earn back whatever they paid for it, and whatever they need to pay the devs who work on it. If they bring all the devs in house, I don't understand how they can afford it. I don't understand how they could afford to pay any amount of money for a dying platform.
I hope they didn't leverage themselves too badly. The Daz store is alive and well, though.
Hi Chessy, good to see you back. Rosity may have jammed themselves up buying Poser but you never know. Smith Micro could have given it to them for a song figuring a little money was better than sinking more money in an antiquated product that was dying. I don't know of anyone who would pay $100.00 for Poser to start out with now when they can get DS 4.11 for free. I also hope Rosity is able to continue. I have noticed that a lot of the new DAZ products lately seem to be game asset quality over at Rosity. Nothing wrong with that and it does save headroom in a render, just not as detailed as they used to be. Maybe more venders are converting Poser assets to DAZ assets. Bill
I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused
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It all will really depend on what 'Rosity does with Poser. Do they keep it going as is, with only the occasional feature or new characters, or do they revamp the entire program to be more competitive with DAZ Studio? Do they invest time and money in improving the program, or focus more on content?
As to the Amazon Prime thing, it's not really that surprising. DAZ is already processing payments through Amazon, so this might be 'Rosity's way of jumping on that bandwagon.
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I hope Rendo didn't pay much for Poser because Smith Micro was doing very little with it, at least in terms of pushing humanistic models with long-term support. Maybe they were doing architectural stuff... who knows what Smith Micro's strategy was.
La Femme paints Rendo in a bit of a corner.
Do they spin their wheels on that one? Do they bust their asses to make Genesis 3/8 work in Poser? And where is L'Homme?
La Femme needs to be cheap, and needs an inexpensive ecosystem for a new user because Genesis 8 is a pretty damn compelling figure by now, even with Genesis 9 just around the corner. Clothing, genitalia, everything in between.
La Femme just isn't going to compete with Genesis 8 on quality at this point. The gap is too wide, with too much of a head start (including the whole of the Genesis 3 line as backwards compatible!). La Femme has to play catch-up just to get to V4 quality. Can Rendo eat some cost to make that work? I know I downloaded the free La Femme from Rendo, but I have Genesis 8... I have zero motivation to make La Femme work.
Maybe Genesis 9 represents an opportunity for La Femme to create a lead over Daz, but we don't even know what Victoria 9 will do yet and the Daz install base is huge. Customer money will go into Victoria 9 unless it totally screws the pooch.
Originally Posted by: billyben Hi Chessy, good to see you back.
Thanks... getting back into the naughty that works for this site, experimenting with other art in the meantime.
I thought about animation in SFM, but I figure I'll try my hand at 2D animation apps instead. 3D animation is too much of a pain in the ass unless you have a fancy computer, which I don't. Seeing the animation in the VN "Love Ribbon", that was kind of inspiring.
Totally independent of Poser/Daz, also. Taking a 2D image and breaking it up for animation is the goal... there's even plenty of free stuff like Synfig, Pencil2D, Dragonbones (for sprites).
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This is the 3rd Item that Smith Micro has dropped for a Products that I have bought.
That had a great registry cleaner that they kept going till Windows 10 came a long and then just dropped the product
Then they has a nice file sending service that for my needs was downright cheap and more secure than the free sites that do this and after 3 years they dropped it, But I have to say that when notified in march of 2018 that my renewal would drop come July when my anniversary was due neglected to take the site down and I kept using it.
In 2019 6 months after my time had expired they finally closed the site down They noted that I had sent some files after July and it was OK it was their forgetting to close the site when subscriptions had expired. I even also offered to pay them for 6 months of use and they said just forget about it
and now Poser.. Truth be told I was not that fond of P-11 and I have been using Pro 2014 even though I have P11 BTW the download registry still works and there is a new version of P-11 available but this is not an update where they just add to what you got, during the install they remove the old version and then reload the most recent version
I'm pretty sure this is not the new rendo Version that they will send notices about when it's ready
I still have one more smith micor item on my PC and will see just how long smith micro supports it.
Not sure how La femme will do. So far I have caught something I do not like that much when it comes to textures. for some ready the textures I see for sale do little to alter much facial detail and when one looks at the various skin textures.. the structure around the eyes never changes
I have yet to buy it because it will mean using P-11 and I'm jut not in the mood to try it yet
Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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Originally Posted by: shadoman
I think that with the creation of La Femme, Poser has a platform that might work with Renderosity.
Obviously they looked into all the financial beforehand and thought the risk worthwhile
Unless the risk was Poser just disappearing. I don't see Rendo having that deep of pockets; SM's graphics divison only pulled $264K 1st quarter compared to $600K that same quarter last year. That's across all their software and they said that their other software was doing better than Poser, so only poser brought in a fraction of that money. Rendo probably got the software for cheap because it looks like the department was getting shut down anyway as 264K would make payroll to keep it going.
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Yes the DAZ store is alive and thriving but think what might happen without a poser format. Competition has been known to keep prices for things in check if DAZ were the only show on the planet, they might get greedy or now, but you never know
DAZ already has most of the market and the prices are still in line because there are other stores that sell products so that's the competition. And there are other places that sell content that they won't touch, like some items here, so that keeps prices in line.. not because a format is not around anymore.
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From what I read a few of the development folks from smith micro are joining rendo and they have already mention that when the time is right they will have a new version of P-11 for everyone to download that will be compatable with the new rendo release of the software
That should be the concerning part. Bringing back people to do the same thing will achieve the same result. The only people that should be back should be the people familar with the code, but there should be new people in charge to put the software changes in a new direction. That's about the only input the old people should have: modify the code according to the new owners direction in order to compete.
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Originally Posted by: shadoman
This is the 3rd Item that Smith Micro has dropped for a Products that I have bought.
That had a great registry cleaner that they kept going till Windows 10 came a long and then just dropped the product
Then they has a nice file sending service that for my needs was downright cheap and more secure than the free sites that do this and after 3 years they dropped it, But I have to say that when notified in march of 2018 that my renewal would drop come July when my anniversary was due neglected to take the site down and I kept using it.
In 2019 6 months after my time had expired they finally closed the site down They noted that I had sent some files after July and it was OK it was their forgetting to close the site when subscriptions had expired. I even also offered to pay them for 6 months of use and they said just forget about it
Smith Micro was basically a software reseller, buying out various programs during the 90s-2000s like a few other companies. They inherited their programming staff so that's kind of how they got into software development. Their big issue was putting all their eggs in the mobile phone market (the flip phones and motorola) and having the market turn toward smart phones that did everything. The iPhone really did them in, so they were stuck with software that made ringtones and doing communication and video services and apple and (and to a degree Microsoft) made it possible to do it on a phone without that software. So you had that finanical difficulty back in 2010-11, around the time Genesis was released. I don't think the money was there to throw at their graphics divisions because their main source of income, mobile and video, was struggling.
My old company used one of Smith Micros server and mobile streaming solutions and we partnered with them to get a solution going. However last year SM discontiued support on that software and we had to scramble for a different solution. The mobile streaming never worked enough to put that part into production.
SM is doing better financially, but they've had to get rid of software that was dragging them down, unfortunately I think poser was one of them. Edited by user Sunday, July 14, 2019 9:13:17 AM(UTC)
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What was the risk in Poser disappearing, though? What would it have cost Rendo if Poser went away?
So much of the Rendo store IS Daz product, and Daz has no interest in bringing 100% of the hobby into the Daz Store. They don't sell the kind of skimp-wear and nudity stuff that they used to at Daz.
This is why I wonder how much of the Poser buy was a pure business decision on their part.
Building out La Femme? L'Homme? It's going to cost them. The Poser dev work will cost them even if Poser was practically given away by Smith Micro.
Maybe Rendo had piles of cash from all the Daz sales they are making. It's all puzzling, but good luck to them.
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Originally Posted by: cheesymaid
What was the risk in Poser disappearing, though? What would it have cost Rendo if Poser went away?
So much of the Rendo store IS Daz product, and Daz has no interest in bringing 100% of the hobby into the Daz Store. They don't sell the kind of skimp-wear and nudity stuff that they used to at Daz.
This is why I wonder how much of the Poser buy was a pure business decision on their part.
Building out La Femme? L'Homme? It's going to cost them. The Poser dev work will cost them even if Poser was practically given away by Smith Micro.
Maybe Rendo had piles of cash from all the Daz sales they are making. It's all puzzling, but good luck to them.
I think it was more sentimental risk than anything else. It would probably be more of an emotional blow than a financial one. Maybe the price they paid for Poser was low enough to assume the risk, but it isn't necessary a risk if they're not doing major things like rewrites or adding major new features. It then becomes an issue of managing expectations from its users. So I would give rendo time to assess the program, what they want to do vs what they can actually do with the resources allotted.
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I would imagine that if Poser was cheap enough, it's just good business sense to buy it so it doesn't go bye-bye. There's still poser content being made, and combine that with their massive back catalog, they probably don't want to risk not having the main software available and thus losing out on monetizing the existing content. Plus who knows what they footed cost-wise for La Femme.
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Is it possible that Renderosity will try to incorporate Genesis into Poser? I remember a comment indicating that Smith Micro had declined to support Genesis 1. They might, assuming it's possible.
But then there is Iray, an obviously superior render engine. Iray, as everyone knows, demands serious GPU capacities. DAZ Studio might be free, but superior graphic cards certainly aren't. Might Renderosity try to position a modestly revamped (read Genesis included) Poser as an alternative to choosing between ten-hour render times or spending hundreds on a better graphics card and more RAM memory?
There's a reason I'm not a business man. I wouldn't know what path to choose.
PS, cheesymaid, your avatar is exquisite. Edited by user Sunday, July 14, 2019 5:51:11 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified Live long and render
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees
Is it possible that Renderosity will try to incorporate Genesis into Poser? I remember a comment indicating that Smith Micro had declined to support Genesis 1. They might, assuming it's possible.
The Daz board seems to think it's not sensible for them to port Genesis 8 into Poser because "compatibility" isn't perfect and has a cost.
To me, it doesn't make sense to avoid Genesis 8 support. You WANT to bring in Daz users who have V8. We don't need La Femme, we already have Genesis 8!
To get La Femme up to where Genesis 8 is? That's crazy talk. Then you'd have to make La Femme BETTER because we alreay have Daz Studio with a V8 library? Not to mention the nonexistent L'Homme, who needs to be better than the likes of Michael 8, Edward 8, Christian 8?! That's madness.
It's a big mountain for Rendo/Poser. I think they make the mountain larger if they ignore Genesis 8 compatibility, but that's my opinion.
Originally Posted by: contedesfees PS, cheesymaid, your avatar is exquisite.
LOL... thanks! I'm quite happy with her, myself. She's in my gallery here and there. With the work week coming, there will be more of her thanks to the long render times afforded by my time at my real job.
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To say that daz would throw a party if Poser went away would be an understatement..
Thn they would introduce a new version of the Genesis base figures that would not be compatable with anything you already have..
Not sure what future Poser Version would look like. Rosity has only claimed there will be aversion of P-11 coming that must be downloaded to be compatable with their site and they will make an announcement. I think Rosity might test the waters and introduce a new version of the product in a year or two depoending on how receptive folks are to the new leadership.
Frankly My poser spending has dropped to almost Nil,, I will buy DAVO's new Morgue set and Rosity has a very cute Asian base figure that I plan to buy ans she will work great in some future Transgender story I'm planning
Other than that I'll still use Pro 2014 for now and at 69 I have no intentions of getting involved in another system
Regards Shado
Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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The only thing that's going to save Poser is if Poser users buy a bunch of stuff from Rendo, if they aren't selling then they won't have the money to develop Poser.
So if you want to see Poser succeed, open your wallets and support them, otherwise they won't be able to improve it.
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I have long suspected that Smith Micro meant to unload Poser. I think therefore that Smith Micro was quietly but actively seeking a buyer. It would be interesting to know what other software firms were involved, which of them made offers, and how Renderosity won out in the end. Is it really possible that only Renderosity wanted Poser? I call that doubtful. As for Poser disappearing someday, well, remember Silo? It's still on the market and presently on sale for $US99. Live long and render
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Originally Posted by: cheesymaid
Maybe if you FOSS the whole Poser platform, it might work. Can Poser live as FOSS?
Oh, man -- that would be so cool.
A version of Poser on par with what Blender is to 3D modeling/animation software or what Linux is to operating systems would be the first real challenge DAZ Studio has had in quite a while.
Has anyone pitched such an idea to the folks at Renderosity? Edited by user Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:21:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sumigo The only thing that's going to save Poser is if Poser users buy a bunch of stuff from Rendo, if they aren't selling then they won't have the money to develop Poser.
So if you want to see Poser succeed, open your wallets and support them, otherwise they won't be able to improve it.
That won‘t be me. I am happily kicked out from Rendo.
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Cool avatar cheesymaid - She derailed my train of thought from the thread 
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