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Renderotica
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The Hub of Render's Apocalypse
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Originally Posted by: Shadow_Mist  As someone who bought Photoshop 2.1 back in the day and whatever Poser version followed shortly after, I'm still amazed at how the vendor community decided those of us who still render photorealistic images using Poser's SASHA 19 and M4 characters somehow switched to thinking we're all now on or should be on DAZ.I have extensive marketing experience, yet, I'm at a loss to understand why many of you who had previously created both DAZ and Poser content abandoned the latter. I'm grateful for Those who still do.
Speaking for myself and prob others, it was a money issue.
I started way back with Poser 3 in 1998 and I created and sold only Poser add-on's, while many people started switching over to Daz, I stayed with Poser, I ended up staying until I barely made enough to call "beer money" and then I finally switched over to Daz around 2015 and I've been a Daz content seller ever since.
I really did love Poser, and I was sad when the sales got less and less and less, but i made the switch I had to, to keep making a living from this.
I DO give kudos to those still making amazing stuff with Poser. Something witty goes here
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Originally Posted by: Teronsuke
As for pricing there, honestly that's all on the vendors as they set their own prices, and since RH has a sliding % payout I would have thought vendors would price their stuff lower there as they make a higher % per sale, I am interested to see what comes of the software Ion is working on, so far from what I've seen even Poser is a better choice to go with, but it's very early so I will reserve full jdgement until updates happen.
I have noticed some sites have policies restricting vendors from charging lower prices on any competing site. That and each site has their own policy of what percentages are taken by the sites. taken together these may explain the higher prices
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Originally Posted by: Loki
Originally Posted by: Shadow_Mist As someone who bought Photoshop 2.1 back in the day and whatever Poser version followed shortly after, I'm still amazed at how the vendor community decided those of us who still render photorealistic images using Poser's SASHA 19 and M4 characters somehow switched to thinking we're all now on or should be on DAZ.I have extensive marketing experience, yet, I'm at a loss to understand why many of you who had previously created both DAZ and Poser content abandoned the latter. I'm grateful for Those who still do.
Speaking for myself and prob others, it was a money issue.
I started way back with Poser 3 in 1998 and I created and sold only Poser add-on's, while many people started switching over to Daz, I stayed with Poser, I ended up staying until I barely made enough to call "beer money" and then I finally switched over to Daz around 2015 and I've been a Daz content seller ever since.
I really did love Poser, and I was sad when the sales got less and less and less, but i made the switch I had to, to keep making a living from this.
I DO give kudos to those still making amazing stuff with Poser.
This echoes my own experience almost to a tee. I still use Poser privately, and all my old Poser products for V4 and M4 are still in my store here, if anyone is interested in them. But there simply isn't any money in creating new things for the Gen 4 figures anymore. This is a hobby for me rather than a full-time occupation, but I would be lying if I said money wasn't an issue whatsoever.
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There's just no money to be made in Poser. And if you got into making 3D after Daz 4.5, like me, you never even touched a copy of Poser. So to make products for Poser I would have to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a product, learn its archaic system which almost no manuals or tutorials exist for, to hope that a handful of remaining Poser buyers will decide to buy it.
I looked at it once, and asked vendor friends who had experience with and they all told me spend $400 and time and effort to make $5.
Hoping once this place becomes workable that it might be worth looking at moving to. Renderhub is tits up at this point, and I can't imagine they'll be viable this time next year. Or if they are, they'll just be another CG Trader like generic 3D object store. They were great for vendors, but the sad reality is 3D is just dying as a business. And I say that with a lot of sadness, because it's still my hobby and creative outlet.
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Originally Posted by: Pushee-Ri This morning—or rather, last night—the Renderhub administration took an action that goes far beyond the overreach we’ve already seen:
The user Excessive had many beautiful products, all of which were offered as freebies. In addition, his gallery posts were always a highlight, and his advocacy for the LGBTQ community in the gallery was legendary.
After the purge, just under 1/5 of his freebies remained, and there were hardly any posts left in the gallery. So he decided to close his freebie shop and his account. Since he didn't want Renderhub to make money off his freebies (in the sense of offering a large selection of freebies to attract potential customers), he replaced all his products with 0-byte files.
Soon after, a howling and demanding mob appeared—one that had never (!) thanked Excessive for the freebies or supported him in any other way, but had downloaded his freebies all the more for it.If you'd like, you can read the sometimes inappropriate comments for yourselves (see below)
The Renderhub admin has now—against Excessive's express wishes and will—restored all freebie products... and simultaneously suspended his account. This means Excessive can no longer defend himself against this almost criminal act.
Honestly, guys—I can't eat nearly as much as I'd like to puke (Max Liebermann)
Note: If you check out the thread (see below) and come across a user named PasahRi, that's me (using my account for NSFW projects on Renderhub).
Since I can't provide a direct link, anyone interested can search for the thread titled “EVERYTHING MUST GO!! 1000% OFF!!” in the Renderhub forum (it's currently near the top).
They said in that thread that they were banned from here for posting freebies (we HAVE a freebie section so that's a head scratcher) none the less, I did a search for their Rendo name ZERO results (even if banned the name would come back and say banned) so then I searched for "Excessive" and it DID come back.... "approved" not banned, a bit confused I checked the user details and I'm 95% certain it's the same person, but not banned, last logged in in 2021.
Let them now if they want to come back they can, Excessive account is not banned from everything I can tell on my end.
I'd pop in the thread myself, but I noticed the admins are finally ''cleaning up posts" lol Also let them know about the Migration program... speaking of which, gotta get back to working on your migration lol
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@Teronsuke
At first, I thought I must have written something wrong somewhere, since you mentioned Rendo and 'rotica even though my post was about Renderhub and how it treats 3D developers. But now I think I’ve figured out your reply (sorry, it’s still a bit early in the morning here, and I’ve only had two cups of coffee ;)
Unfortunately, I can no longer reach Excessive to invite him to 'rotica. Otherwise, I'd love to do that, since he would be a great asset to your platform...
Thanks for the heads up of my migration list - I can't wait to freeze my store on Renderhub: no bucks for suckers :D
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Originally Posted by: Pushee-Ri @Teronsuke
At first, I thought I must have written something wrong somewhere, since you mentioned Rendo and 'rotica even though my post was about Renderhub and how it treats 3D developers. But now I think I’ve figured out your reply (sorry, it’s still a bit early in the morning here, and I’ve only had two cups of coffee ;)
Unfortunately, I can no longer reach Excessive to invite him to 'rotica. Otherwise, I'd love to do that, since he would be a great asset to your platform...
Thanks for the heads up of my migration list - I can't wait to freeze my store on Renderhub: no bucks for suckers :D
Yeah sorry I was explaining that they said they were banned from here, but I checked their username on Rendo (thinking it might have been the same here) but nothing came back, so then I searched for Excessive and I found what I am like 95% is their actual account, not banned, "approved" and should be able to log in with their details.
Did they leave leave or get banned from RHub? I thought they posted in that thread pretty recently.
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Glad I jumped that sinking ship a long time ago. Something just never sat right with them.
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Originally Posted by: Pushee-Ri @Teronsuke
' Did they leave leave or get banned from RHub? I thought they posted in that thread pretty recently.'
The admin wrote (after he had unauthorizedly made the blocked downloads available again):
'To prevent any further misuse, we have blocked access to the account.' (at the end of the thread)
I just found out that Excessive goes by the username pjz99 on Renderosity, and I messaged him right away. However, his last post was half a year ago... so I don't know if he's still checking the site.
Guys, the recent events on Renderhub—like the lying communication after the purge (it wasn't until Ion stepped in that things became clear), the admins messing with threads, and now this criminal act—are making me so angry, you wouldn't believe it!
I ran it through chatGPT and it's pretty scary how most terms of use documents lets online stores continue to offer a product to existing users. The decision R-H made treats the download as a sort of perpetual download; but the opposite would suggest the product is offered as a lease (like movies and music is today), a lease that could be revoked when the distribution rights are lost. What R-H is doing is good for buyers but bad for creators while the other option is bad for buyers but good for creators. It is ironic how the anti-AI, pro creator rights crowd that dominates the forums there switched on a dime when they couldn't get their shiny thing for free.
Anyway, the apocalypse continues over there. Some good lessons to learn and add to the "what could possibly go wrong" file over here, and at the other vendor sites.
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@Chaosophia
Until recently, I actually felt quite comfortable there. Then, within a short period of time, there was the misleading communication about the purge (which was clearly explained 24 hours later, thanks to Ion's post) and now this whole thing with Excessive. So it's time for me, too (as a vendor), to jump the sinking ship :)
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What pissed me off about them was I had the tier to get the most percentage as a vendor, I think it was like 70% if I remember correctly. Then they changed it to where ya had to have 1,000 products and the change put me back in 50% tier. and I was like you can go fuck yourself with a chainsaw. Switch and Bait bullshit. Plus trying to get a payout was a bitch, you would have to submit it then wait till he got off his ass to send it. Plus with the flux of game rips that started to come in at the time. I had a feeling it was a backdoor pirate site. Doing some hellified looking into the place, I just didn't feel comfortable doing business with them, and the tier changed put the nail in that coffin. I requested my shit be removed. And as far as I know it was. I kept getting emails from ppl there asking about things from time to time, but I could never see the messages, so who knows, but if they are without my permission, then they can deal with the demons I call friends.
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As for the freebies I can see if someone already had it, they could dl it after the vendor leaves, but not for new dls that wasn't in the client area. For him to put it back up was a bit assholish after they were removed.
Was it for new downloads or for users that already had the items? cause that matters in this case. But if he put it up for new gets that didn't already had it, and banned and put it up for anyone new or old to get then Ion crossed the line there.
But I am biased in opinion about Render Hub, so...
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Originally Posted by: kwerkx
Originally Posted by: Pushee-Ri @Teronsuke
' Did they leave leave or get banned from RHub? I thought they posted in that thread pretty recently.'
The admin wrote (after he had unauthorizedly made the blocked downloads available again):
'To prevent any further misuse, we have blocked access to the account.' (at the end of the thread)
I just found out that Excessive goes by the username pjz99 on Renderosity, and I messaged him right away. However, his last post was half a year ago... so I don't know if he's still checking the site.
Guys, the recent events on Renderhub—like the lying communication after the purge (it wasn't until Ion stepped in that things became clear), the admins messing with threads, and now this criminal act—are making me so angry, you wouldn't believe it!
I ran it through chatGPT and it's pretty scary how most terms of use documents lets online stores continue to offer a product to existing users. The decision R-H made treats the download as a sort of perpetual download; but the opposite would suggest the product is offered as a lease (like movies and music is today), a lease that could be revoked when the distribution rights are lost. What R-H is doing is good for buyers but bad for creators while the other option is bad for buyers but good for creators. It is ironic how the anti-AI, pro creator rights crowd that dominates the forums there switched on a dime when they couldn't get their shiny thing for free.
Anyway, the apocalypse continues over there. Some good lessons to learn and add to the "what could possibly go wrong" file over here, and at the other vendor sites.
Just to put it in plain English so to speak, the "perpetual downloads" is for the people who already bought / downloaded the products, when customers buy a vendors products they should be able to re-download if something happens to their machine, get a new one, hard drive crash etc so most marketplaces if a vendor closes up shop, gets banned or even passes away, those products stay "online" but only in the backends, this is so prior customers can re-download them if need be.
Now, while part of me cringes at what happened, and part of me sat here doing the 'slow clap' in support (ya'll know I wear two hats lol) I can say, NONE of it would have happened if RHub did not allow unvetted / untested uploads / updates, so I cringe a bit less knowing that it could of been avoided if they were not so hellbent on taking such a hands off approach. Something witty goes here
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"Just to put it in plain English so to speak, the "perpetual downloads" is for the people who already bought / downloaded the products, when customers buy a vendors products they should be able to re-download if something happens to their machine, get a new one, hard drive crash etc so most marketplaces if a vendor closes up shop, gets banned or even passes away, those products stay "online" but only in the backends, this is so prior customers can re-download them if need be"
This is acceptable. Totally.
"Now, while part of me cringes at what happened, and part of me sat here doing the 'slow clap' in support (ya'll know I wear two hats lol) I can say, NONE of it would have happened if RHub did not allow unvetted / untested uploads / updates, so I cringe a bit less knowing that it could of been avoided if they were not so hellbent on taking such a hands off approach."
Agreed, I was like WTF, cause when I submitted stuff a long time ago, I thought it would have to be retested. I was surprised when it was up like almost instantly. But really it feels more like a fast cash grab on other's backs. As this continues, and you see more and more the inner reactions. But at the end of the day you go with the devil you know best. So to each their own. And I know I have been a rather pain in the ass to some here, but this place is my devil of choice. LOL. Just know I will haunt this place, after immortality ends... LOL.
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Ahhhh ... I wasn't aware of that Penduluchutulawhatoever stuff .... Many thanks to Chaosophia, Kwerx, and Teronsuke for guiding me to the light :)
Well—at least now I know how to lure all those RH Leechers out from under their rocks so I can really annoy them :D
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Originally Posted by: Teronsuke
Originally Posted by: BigBlueProstatePoker
Originally Posted by: gohanf2285
I hope they change that. What i Was trying to mention was what happened to Share - CG...
I hope they change, but as a customer I'm faced with two options that both suck.
The newer place that was way easier to shop at, didn't feel like I had timewarped back to 2004 everytime I went to make a purchase, and way more daily product updates. However the management was super bipolar and would make broad changes at the whim of some old-ass man named Ion. And now I can't buy porn there.
Or this place that censors your post, has way less frequent sales updates, feel like I time warped back to 2004 (just look at the toolbar in the post menu), has its own share of drama, and oh yeah, last I can tell I also can't buy porn here.
As a customer, I'm just filled with a wealth of options to buy adult products. I'm just grateful that vendors like SquarePeg have subscription services (here, I'll do your job for you for free) at "deleted" .
Man, it's a great time to be a 3D user and customer. No wonder AI is replacing us.
While I can't / won't sit here and bash on RenderHub, I can tell you one of the reasons they have/had more daily product updates was because they took an entire 'hands off' approch to the store, no testing, no vetting, no checks, there was text around the site that CLAIMED it would take X days to release once submitted but all of my products (under my other name) went live the second I hit submit, same with many other vendors I know over there, so when nothing is getting tested or checked, products can go live much faster... for better or worse.
Over here, yeah the site's old, she's got some wear and tear, been running since 1999 after all, jokes aside, please be aware / remember that we just came off of a very long legal battle over ownership and that JUST wrapped up in May, I got back here May 12th to start cleaning things up and reinstating all of the things I was doing here for the 12-13 years I was here prior, and just as we started making progress we find the NSFW processor issue and ALL of our priorities had to switch to getting that fixed the proper way so that's where we are at right now.
I know that once things get straightened out with the NSFW processing that a lot of new things will be coming to the site and some of them I honestly can't wait to show everyone!
For now, the site still works even if the look and feel is... classic, but hey... our forums work properly, and you can reply to any single post you want to reply to ;)
No wonder I once bought a truly terrible product there.
Not only did the accessories fail to fit the intended Genesie figure, but there wasn't even a single adjustment option included.
When I messaged the vendor, he actually replied saying, "If you don't like this product, you can just buy another similar one from my store."
What? That’s your answer?
With a product this terrible, I’m still supposed to trust your merchandise?
I also bought a scene set sold there; the promotional images looked incredibly detailed.
But after buying it and looking closely, I found that the textures on many of the scene's accessories were just haphazard gray and white scribbles.
Only the scene show in the promo art was actually well-made; the other objects were a total mess.
While it's true that official Daz scenes are excellent, the scenes from Powerage and GArt are far superior.
Aside from those two, I’ve never bought a product quite that bad on Renderotica.
By the way, I wonder if Powerage is getting on in years—they rarely seem to update their products anymore.
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Originally Posted by: DylanRocket
Originally Posted by: Teronsuke
Originally Posted by: BigBlueProstatePoker
Originally Posted by: gohanf2285
I hope they change that. What i Was trying to mention was what happened to Share - CG...
I hope they change, but as a customer I'm faced with two options that both suck.
The newer place that was way easier to shop at, didn't feel like I had timewarped back to 2004 everytime I went to make a purchase, and way more daily product updates. However the management was super bipolar and would make broad changes at the whim of some old-ass man named Ion. And now I can't buy porn there.
Or this place that censors your post, has way less frequent sales updates, feel like I time warped back to 2004 (just look at the toolbar in the post menu), has its own share of drama, and oh yeah, last I can tell I also can't buy porn here.
As a customer, I'm just filled with a wealth of options to buy adult products. I'm just grateful that vendors like SquarePeg have subscription services (here, I'll do your job for you for free) at "deleted" .
Man, it's a great time to be a 3D user and customer. No wonder AI is replacing us.
While I can't / won't sit here and bash on RenderHub, I can tell you one of the reasons they have/had more daily product updates was because they took an entire 'hands off' approch to the store, no testing, no vetting, no checks, there was text around the site that CLAIMED it would take X days to release once submitted but all of my products (under my other name) went live the second I hit submit, same with many other vendors I know over there, so when nothing is getting tested or checked, products can go live much faster... for better or worse.
Over here, yeah the site's old, she's got some wear and tear, been running since 1999 after all, jokes aside, please be aware / remember that we just came off of a very long legal battle over ownership and that JUST wrapped up in May, I got back here May 12th to start cleaning things up and reinstating all of the things I was doing here for the 12-13 years I was here prior, and just as we started making progress we find the NSFW processor issue and ALL of our priorities had to switch to getting that fixed the proper way so that's where we are at right now.
I know that once things get straightened out with the NSFW processing that a lot of new things will be coming to the site and some of them I honestly can't wait to show everyone!
For now, the site still works even if the look and feel is... classic, but hey... our forums work properly, and you can reply to any single post you want to reply to ;)
No wonder I once bought a truly terrible product there.
Not only did the accessories fail to fit the intended Genesie figure, but there wasn't even a single adjustment option included.
When I messaged the vendor, he actually replied saying, "If you don't like this product, you can just buy another similar one from my store."
What? That’s your answer?
With a product this terrible, I’m still supposed to trust your merchandise?
I also bought a scene set sold there; the promotional images looked incredibly detailed.
But after buying it and looking closely, I found that the textures on many of the scene's accessories were just haphazard gray and white scribbles.
Only the scene show in the promo art was actually well-made; the other objects were a total mess.
While it's true that official Daz scenes are excellent, the scenes from Powerage and GArt are far superior.
Aside from those two, I’ve never bought a product quite that bad on Renderotica.
By the way, I wonder if Powerage is getting on in years—they rarely seem to update their products anymore.
Yeah I think that was another one of many reasons why RH was having problems. I mean one good thing they DID put in, to where you didn't have to see Vendors uploading Garbage assets, is when you BLOCK their profile, their vendor TOTALLY disappears from the timeline, and I probably wasn't the only one doing that.
I mean people probably blocked vendors who were uploading Game Rips that literally should NEVER have been sold to begin with, and not to mention people doing AI generated Assets (Not dreamlight cause he even stated he does everything still by hand, just uses it to help with Workflow). There are some on there that looked cheesy and str8 up generated from AI.
All of this, it's no wonder RH is under a LOT of scrutiny. I mean as Tero said, this site maybe old, but it still works as intended. Oh well...I doubt they will put up any sort of Competition to Artstation cause they have to make a GOOD SITE first that is Professional Quality to even THINK of starting to get Professional Artists to start coming there, not to mention cleaning house a bit of all the cheesy assets and vendors who really, in a way, shouldn't be theire from the start... "The gaining of Knowledge, is like the Fettering of a Sword. It must be Honed and Molded, to where it can then cut any Lie, and Deception..."
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I know pjz99 pulled everything down once before, more than a decade and a half or so ago due to people posting his freebies on warez sites, and claiming them as their own.
Something like what RenderHub just pulled and it might send him from the community in the end, and he may not come back under a different name this time.
(I've been trying to remember his old moniker, but I'm coming up blank, and my old Poser/Daz Runtimes that contained his work under the old name are gone)
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@BrotherHades
He let off some steam on RH yesterday. Username: NotExcessive. That made all the leechers even more aggressive than they already are. I think Excessive would be in good hands here on 'rotica/cgbytes. Unfortunately, I couldn't convince him.
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Problem is, as what Brother said, many people are getting their stuff that are FREEBIES, seen RESOLD somewhere else for actual money. Like that sort of shit shouldn't be tolerated by anyone. You offer something for free, it SHOULD STAY FREE?! Not resold for a quick buck.
And warez, if it hasn't already, is on it's way out too for allowing such things. Like this is how sites and companies go under: by not BACKGROUND CHECKING of what all comes in.
If RH did the right amount of checking of what got uploaded to the site, they probably would never have got into this situation. Did they probably have not enough help to run it? Possibly. Cause you do need manpower to moderate the site, which includes approving vendors and what the vendors are selling. And if it's only like a handful of people, they would literally be doing LOTS of work 24/7, and not have anytime for themselves.
If you don't have enough help to do all of that, you then run into the situation you now have going on at RH...
Originally Posted by: Pushee-Ri @BrotherHades
He let off some steam on RH yesterday. Username: NotExcessive. That made all the leechers even more aggressive than they already are. I think Excessive would be in good hands here on 'rotica/cgbytes. Unfortunately, I couldn't convince him. "The gaining of Knowledge, is like the Fettering of a Sword. It must be Honed and Molded, to where it can then cut any Lie, and Deception..."
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