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Thegreattank  
#1 Posted : Monday, February 5, 2024 6:36:26 PM(UTC)
Thegreattank

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It seems like the products have downgraded a lot in term of quality.  Now all I see are flood of Chaosophia products or comics.


I guess the days of good quality products are behind us.  The only seller that I look forward to his next product is Davo.


But even then Im starting to get disapointed into Davo's products.  They just seem to be recycled devices but with a slightly different look.


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CDDVD on 2/6/2024(UTC)
Ebonix115  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 5, 2024 8:29:21 PM(UTC)
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I think there are a few good variables that go into why people may not be purchasing the way they used to, although, the main one would have to be the economy - Obviously, the prices on just about everything IRL has gone up (in some places they are still going up). With this in mind, most people have to really start honing in on what they need vs what they want. So unless they're actively creating comics/games/renders for a source of income, they're probably putting their digital design hobby on the back burner. When you have less people buying, the vendors themselves are making less money. 


Less money + less people buying = less time they can put into a product (basically. It's more complicated than that I'm sure, but you get the idea)


If someone's only getting paid half of what they used to, they're not going to spend the same amount of time making it. They're going to spend about as much time making it as they determine they may get paid. That's how businesses normally operate. 


Side note - The release of G9, updates to Daz3D/Blender and now competeing with AI don't make the above issue any easier. 


If there's something specific that you're looking for, post about it. Get those creative juices flowing. I'm certain there are several artists who would love to hear about what you want to buy, because then they have an idea on what to make. 


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Twisted_Pencil on 2/6/2024(UTC)
davo  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 5, 2024 10:07:07 PM(UTC)
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Lol, I've had this conversation many times with my peers. I have 378 products listed on my vendor stats but that is misleading as many of my single packages have several devices within them. I go around with my other vendor friends and they ask what I'm workin on next and I always have to come back and say "sheeeit I don't know, how many bondage tables can I possibly make, I probably have a hundred of them by now". I do recycle some nuts and bolts and mounting brackets, I try to keep some consistency in my work so they can be interchangeable from one set to another. Currently I'm working on a new grand inquisitor set for public parading a character through town, after that, who knows, it's all been done so many times. 3d modeling is my day job, so I have to try and make things I think will sell. Some people ask for certain items and I decline them because they are so niche I know I'll never get my return on time invested. I have thought about doing comics again, redoing a lot of my past work with updated characters and sets, but honestly, I'd probably have to go offsite since photoreal has taken over the market here and I'm a more traditional graphic novel art type of guy. I have mulled over taking a sabbatical and learning a new 3d modeling program.so I can make more.organic things like creatures, but that's a huge investment in time.

Anybody can drop me a line to my home email, which is in my readme's for product ideas.

Cheers,
Davo
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ZenMaster3D on 2/11/2024(UTC), fishgravy on 5/4/2024(UTC)
BigBlueProstatePoker  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 5, 2024 11:24:29 PM(UTC)
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I think it's a combination of lack of new blood with new ideas, no clear current leader for Genesis generation figure, and a lot of the young blood has switched to SFM and Blender. And in fairness to Davo, how many times can he make some permutation of the same thing? Quality in general just seems to be going down at the Daz store, especially with sets and props.

I feel like vendors aren't sure what figure to make things for. Daz is all Genesis 9 (naturally), but if you look here, *deleted*, and *deleted* there's more of a mix and a lot of times it seems there are more new releases for Genesis 8 than Genesis 9. Also Daz seems to be less popular with the younger folks. If you look at Twitter and other sites, everyone is doing animations in Blender, Unity, and SFM.

Throw in the economy and inflation....
matt  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, February 6, 2024 1:17:40 AM(UTC)
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For me it's not so much the economy or inflation; I have a good job that pays me well. Just about anything that pops up in this store is affordable for me. What I buy are items that make me think, items that give me an idea, or something that I know I will use a lot. I also buy just about anything from Meipe. Not everything, but most things. 


What I don't buy are most comics(there are a few exceptions), weird clothing items, rapey pose sets, or, and this bears repeating, weird clothing items. I like to make imagery that could possibly be a reality, such as two people meeting under normal circumstances and end up fucking each other. For that, I don't need rapey poses or corsets and impossible high heels. I need jeans and t-shirts, sneakers or flip-flops. And honestly...I don't find that here. I find it at DAZ, the other render site, or the other-other render site. And in reality that's where it should be found. 'rotica is for the deviant stuff, but not all of it is for everyone. 


Sure, there are pose sets and clothing items that I've bought here and use regularly. There are genital sets and their add-ons that I've bought here and use regularly. But for me, 'rotica is a niche site. It's one that I visit every day, read the forums every day, and look at the store every day, but I see a lot of 'fetish' products in the store more than anything. That's great for the people who are into whatever particular kink it may cater to, but for the most part it's not my bag, baby. 


What I'd like to see more of in this store are add-ons for existing genital packages, non-rapey sex poses, both MF and MM, and quality character sets(hint: a quality character set is 95% textures). That's what I'll buy.


CDDVD  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, February 6, 2024 6:00:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Thegreattank Go to Quoted Post


It seems like the products have downgraded a lot in term of quality.  Now all I see are flood of Chaosophia products or comics.


I guess the days of good quality products are behind us.  The only seller that I look forward to his next product is Davo.


But even then Im starting to get disapointed into Davo's products.  They just seem to be recycled devices but with a slightly different look.



It's not just you and it's not just here.  The entire Poserverse is suffering from what's called 'enshittification'.  It happens when short sighted and greedy companies lower quality and services in a drive for profit.  Rendo and Daz are suffering the same thing.  Daz is the worst.  After the joke called NFT's and Genesis 9, they're now screwing over their vendors and driving them to set up their own sites to sell directly to the fans. There never will be a Studio 5 and they have no quality control or customer service.  Have you noticed how the number of posts in the forums has been dropping?  Now they're trying to drum up business in social media.  The recent survey was a joke and everybodys making fun of it.


Here, the products are circling the drain of narrow, niche perversions like this futanari(SP) shit. 


AI (Stable Diffusion) couldn't have arrived at a better time.


 


Thegreattank  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 6, 2024 3:39:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post
Lol, I've had this conversation many times with my peers. I have 378 products listed on my vendor stats but that is misleading as many of my single packages have several devices within them. I go around with my other vendor friends and they ask what I'm workin on next and I always have to come back and say "sheeeit I don't know, how many bondage tables can I possibly make, I probably have a hundred of them by now". I do recycle some nuts and bolts and mounting brackets, I try to keep some consistency in my work so they can be interchangeable from one set to another. Currently I'm working on a new grand inquisitor set for public parading a character through town, after that, who knows, it's all been done so many times. 3d modeling is my day job, so I have to try and make things I think will sell. Some people ask for certain items and I decline them because they are so niche I know I'll never get my return on time invested. I have thought about doing comics again, redoing a lot of my past work with updated characters and sets, but honestly, I'd probably have to go offsite since photoreal has taken over the market here and I'm a more traditional graphic novel art type of guy. I have mulled over taking a sabbatical and learning a new 3d modeling program.so I can make more.organic things like creatures, but that's a huge investment in time.

Anybody can drop me a line to my home email, which is in my readme's for product ideas.

Cheers,
Davo


I understand what you're saying, I've purchased a lot of your products and it is inevitable that I some point the product variety will take a hit.


Thegreattank  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 6, 2024 3:42:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CDDVD Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Thegreattank Go to Quoted Post


It seems like the products have downgraded a lot in term of quality.  Now all I see are flood of Chaosophia products or comics.


I guess the days of good quality products are behind us.  The only seller that I look forward to his next product is Davo.


But even then Im starting to get disapointed into Davo's products.  They just seem to be recycled devices but with a slightly different look.



It's not just you and it's not just here.  The entire Poserverse is suffering from what's called 'enshittification'.  It happens when short sighted and greedy companies lower quality and services in a drive for profit.  Rendo and Daz are suffering the same thing.  Daz is the worst.  After the joke called NFT's and Genesis 9, they're now screwing over their vendors and driving them to set up their own sites to sell directly to the fans. There never will be a Studio 5 and they have no quality control or customer service.  Have you noticed how the number of posts in the forums has been dropping?  Now they're trying to drum up business in social media.  The recent survey was a joke and everybodys making fun of it.


Here, the products are circling the drain of narrow, niche perversions like this futanari(SP) shit. 


AI (Stable Diffusion) couldn't have arrived at a better time.


 



I agree, DAZ is the worst.  it is obvious that the company is run by snowflakes.  They cannot take negative feedback, as soon as you say something bad about the way they do business they ban you from forums and delete the thread.


Bumper2  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 7, 2024 1:54:25 PM(UTC)
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As someone who just bought things from here and the Daz website I respectfully disagree. I also disagree that the people running it are 'snowflakes'. They have a business. They run it. If someone continuously writes about how terrible their product is they are well within their rights to ban that person. Maybe they'd change that if enough people stopped using their product, but when they host a forum their on the positive side when they delete or ban things. Those things are cost.


I buy things during two times - my bank account notwithstanding. The first is when I've wanted a product for a while and can see many ways to use it frequently. The second is when I'm hit hard in the idea part of my brain and need to make THAT image immediately. I currently have 10+ pages of wishlist items just on here. Many are things I like in theory but don't think I'll actually use that often. One of the worst symbiotic parts of 'rotica is the amount of AMAZING clothing resources - often with morphs that allow partial undress or to the floor versions - that don't get bought because 'rotica is focused on erotica. The nude form. As Matt said earlier they want things that can easily correspond to a natural continuation. I can't list the number of series I've started that I've stopped because it takes way too long to make. A dress that is only there for three or for pictures doesn't make much sense to buy when you know you're making 10+. Especially when it has no morphs.


That being said, I am NOT a 3D designer. The things Davo does, or Matteo IO, or Guhzcoituz, Powerage, Meipe, and lightBLUE do are astounding. They make the things you want to use to see what you want to see. Davo has a lot of tables, yes. I own SO many tables by Davo. Are some of them more niche? Yes. Unfortunately there are only so many ways the human body can realistically pose before it starts to become gory. Gore artists aren't that often here anymore, because their products don't sell here much anymore. These people are all businesspeople, doing something they love to do because it can pay the fucking bills. Davo can make a million tables and I'll buy every single one eventually. I have tools that can give me a dynamic interpretation of the base poses to my liking.


I do not sell my artwork. I've thought about it, yes, but I currently don't. Why? This is my hobby. It is not my career. That hasn't stopped me from making things from others that write me and I take an interest in. Have a good idea? I'll make it. Custom 3D creators don't have that luxury. You want something they don't have? Maybe if a thousand other people have that same wish they'll do it. Time is a huge factor, the only resource we can't get back. The fact that Meipe, Laudanum, and Sledgehammer make specialty genitalia is a boon to what we do. It's the exact same as the people that make pigments and colored pencils. Do they make the art? No. But they do create the means in which to make them.


Are people buying things? Yes and no. People are buying things for the things they want to see. The quality is there. It may take a while for a new 3D artist to approach the technical proficiency that old schoolers like Davo do, where every part is a new asset,  but they TRY. They try very hard. That, in and of itself, is astounding. You reference Chaosophia and their pose packs. The amount of hours it takes for them to make a single doggystyle pose? Or several? Layla? Or Jimrestaurant? Or Godless8? That is to be applauded. Holy fuck, they do everything they can to make it easy for the artists. Art that WE actually create.


So, yes. People are actually buying things. Artists are making things based on what it costs to make their products. Sites are allowing things to be posted based on what they allow to continue paying the bills.


End of rant.


(sorry to the half of my wishlist that is products I don't have the funds for...)


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Twisted_Pencil on 2/7/2024(UTC), Pushee-Ri on 2/7/2024(UTC), ZenMaster3D on 2/11/2024(UTC), Hellboy on 2/22/2024(UTC), Badia03 on 2/26/2024(UTC)
Pushee-Ri  
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:12:12 AM(UTC)
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@Thegreattank (thread opener)

Quality - like beauty - is always in the eye of the beholder. So who determines what quality is? You? Me? The mean? Nobody?

I have just looked at the first catalogue page. Looks the same as always to me - neither better ... but certainly not worse. OK, personally I'm waiting for new work from antropox (I like his promos and love his poses) ... but in the meantime I'm happy to look at other products ... and buy them when I need them for my own promos etc.

So I personally can't agree with the moaning about quality ... in no way.
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Fafard on 2/8/2024(UTC)
kanshinin  
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 8, 2024 5:02:25 AM(UTC)
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I had to think about this a while before posting.


As some just stated, quality is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't think quality itself is going down, we're just seeing more of the same stuff coming out. The problem with that is...that's what's primarily selling.  For example, how many sets of lingerie does someone really need? But this also explains why you don't see a lot of male stuff, it doesn't really sell.

When I look at a product, I ask myself several questions: 1. Do I already have something in my library that is relatively similar that I can use. 2. How often will I really use this product? If it's something I can use in a variety of projects, then it will go into my wishlist. If it's just once, I then ask myself is the product unique enough that I don't have something similar or I have a special need for it.

One thing about Davo's stuff I like is that it's modular and they have morphs.  For example, I am building a breeding room, where I can use his columns, but I am using the walls and door sets from a different product. I get the columns to match the wall/door height, change the materials, add a little grunge. And voila.


While I have G9, I have not really used it, as I have enough G8 stuff to match what I had for V4. I had high hopes for G9, as I could use it to create a "family".  I'd have the male, then the female, the offspring would then be a combination of the 2. The problem is, I want to use my G8 LIE sets on G9, and I am not sure that's do-able, given the material settings. At least the clothing is backwards compatible

Any way, long story short, I don't think overall quality is going down, we're just seeing MOTS (more of the same), and nothing really fresh and nothing that is a OMG, I need that product, and I need it NOW


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Pushee-Ri on 2/8/2024(UTC)
Chaosophia  
#12 Posted : Saturday, February 10, 2024 12:56:01 AM(UTC)
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Great to know my products are shit... You have a nice day.


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ZenMaster3D on 2/11/2024(UTC)
Teej2113  
#13 Posted : Saturday, February 10, 2024 11:19:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chaosophia Go to Quoted Post


Great to know my products are shit... You have a nice day.



You do a good job of trying to span a range of interests.


Some of your sets (e.g. Monsters) don't fit anything I want to produce. Others are indispensable.


Content sold here, and at Daz & *deleted*, provides inspiration. I have a whole episode of one story inspired by a single dress with good undress morphs.


kanshinin  
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 10, 2024 5:37:50 PM(UTC)
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I don't think Davo's or Chaosophia's stuff are sub-quality. Chaos' stuff does fill a rare niche (from vore to aliens to kidnap/beatings), in fact, I just bought one of his products this morning, unique binding poses, as I have a use for some of those poses (I may reach out to you regarding commissioning some poses. I also bought several other things, as I have a use for them.

For me, things need to have multiple uses and be able to be kitbashed, or split out so I can use the parts I need. For example, I use Davo's cellar stairs for a lot of my stairs because they have morphs (that saves me a ton of time....I slap several of the together, and can build a stairwell. Now, if said product only has 1 or 2 items out of a couple dozen, I really need to think about it. Additionally

But, if I can offer a suggestion to creators. If you design rooms/sets, please have them be modular, and something where people can delete an item and not the entire things. If you build rooms, for the love of gawd, please have them open/close, and along the hinges. There is one product I have where the door seems to be welded to the frame and when I try to open it, it explodes, but it still attached to the frame.

Bumper2  
#15 Posted : Sunday, February 11, 2024 9:19:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chaosophia Go to Quoted Post


Great to know my products are shit... You have a nice day.



So you know, I don't think your products are shit. I think you do very good work at a fast clip, which is more than many are able to do. In my post I meant to acknowledge how hard it is to not only come up with products but make 20+ variations on a connecting theme as you do. If that came across differently I sincerely apologize, it was not my intention.


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ZenMaster3D  
#16 Posted : Sunday, February 11, 2024 10:10:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Thegreattank Go to Quoted Post


It seems like the products have downgraded a lot in term of quality.  Now all I see are flood of Chaosophia products or comics.



First, I think this is kinda unfair and a little disrespectful towards Chaosophia, they don't deserve to be called out for something that is out of their control anyway. Last I checked they don't run the site, so they don't decide what goes on the front page. I'm not much of a fan of comics either but who cares? There's always the catalog.


Second... I strongly disagree regarding the quality.


Let's go here, let's talk quality... So I recently (this evening) picked up this beauty: Khattana for G8. Now, not gonna lie: the b00bs are a bit too big for my liking (ey, each to their own!) but that's nothing which a standard morph can't fix. But everything else...  7 presets for eyes, lips, eye liner, and brows. This girl even has public hair when you load her standard character preset. And I'd also like to mention her (varied) skin texture and navel...  hmmm... sucker for female navel shots here at times. $11 (with 30% discount) on our own Renderotica.


Pubes aren't very common.


So people say Daz are pussies. Well, they have some ;)  Some time ago I picked up a few beauties from an artist called Mousso (on the Daz store). In specific: Echo & Milady. Both of them came with (fibermesh) pubes. Not many Daz models come with a full "outfit" ;)


But a model like, say Echo, sells for $19 (now cheaper with a discount it seems (time of writing)).


My point you ask? 


Simple: from my POV our Renderotica's own Khatanna can easily hold her own against the likes of Echo, Milady and even Delphi (another huge favorite of mine). I'm not saying, I'm looking at the trio at the time of writing. And she's not alone, I bought several characters from this place at a lower price than generic models on the Daz store while they still provided solid quality. Though I am going to say that it's a darn shame that Loki3D no longer sells here :(   I kinda take pride in having purchased Violette from here ;)


But let's take this a step further...


Like so many horny males out there I can get off on tentacle fantasies. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that I grabbed the free tentacle pot (ok, ok: tentacle base). I like pot better ;)  Anyway: free of charge yet it comes with several material presets. Including icky looking hair. Free!


Also...  and this is where quality and professionality come into play: also usable with other figures from other vendors as well. Figures like, say, the pentacle? ;)  What makes this figure special you ask? Easy: the inclusion of morphs: if I need a quick fix to get a tentacle curved around 'something' (ahem) I can easily use this.


Steel tentacle anyone? ;)


ok, ok, enough about that. Let's talk clothing, or lack thereof? ;)


You say quality... sure, there is also stuff here which isn't so great. But generally speaking? Funny is it that vendors who sell clothes here also realize what us naughty people like most ;)  So.. you'll often find bikinis, skimpy clothing and others which also come with a variety of morphs to reveal some "naughty bits".


Having a gf who bought many swimsuits and bikinis on the Daz store I can tell you: they're not build with erotics in mind (I wonder why... ;)).


There's a ton of high quality stuff here. Don't even get me started on Davo up there who's props I more than often ran through ZBrush as a learning tool for myself. Huge fan here. And he's not the only one. AutomatiX was obviously designed with the "damsel in distress" trope in mind, but if you look beyond all that...  if you ignore the cart to hold those beauties in place, then you'll see a solid factory setup unlike any other out there. Easily usable for other things besides giving our Genesis females a really hard time.


There's a good reason why I spend more money "over here" than "over there" when looking at the last year.


And lack of quality isn't it.


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Pushee-Ri on 2/12/2024(UTC)
ZenMaster3D  
#17 Posted : Sunday, February 11, 2024 10:24:08 PM(UTC)
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Sorry for a double post, but ... considering my rant I don't think I should include this part.


Originally Posted by: Chaosophia Go to Quoted Post


Great to know my products are shit... You have a nice day.



Don't let the haters get to you!  I may not buy into comics myself (because I have tons of fun making my own renders), but I have nothing but the utmost respect for comic vendors such as yourself. I know, hands on, how hard it is to get a story going and to keep it going. 


Being fully honest here: if you ask me then a lot of your product promo pictures are freebies of their own. I'm not just saying things: that second trio? omg...  or what about brutal scenario 3? (further down). And don't even get me started on "Product placement 2". Let's talk damsel in distress... geez!


I love your work man, even though I'm not an actual customer.


Chaosophia  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 12, 2024 3:46:47 AM(UTC)
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Oh trust I am not offended the least bit. Truly everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am not trying to take that away from anyone. I do find it odd that I made the mention list in the OP post. I do find it disrespectful, but water off a duck's ass, I have been told worse by more important people.


Bumper: I didn't take any offense to your post at all, We good. No worries, and thank you for the kind words.


ZenMaster: Thank you for your kind words too. Trust this isn't going to get me down one bit. It will only put me into overdrive. It has inspired a pose set, already. And is ready to go into the list of pose sets I mentioned in the blog post. I might just have to make a comic now, :) It has been on the table for years now. Thank you for appreciating the art, It means a great deal to me.


Thank you TeeJ and Kanshinin for your kind words as well, and for the support.


 

Edited by user Monday, February 12, 2024 4:04:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Zeppelin  
#19 Posted : Thursday, February 15, 2024 1:12:07 AM(UTC)
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With AI on the rise, companies raising prices, and G9 renders from other artists showing no real improvement over G8, I'm considering very carefully what I buy. I don't think quality has gone down, many packages have many extra items that come in handy in many settings. A saturation point is reached in terms of the number of products and scenes one acquires. I've been very disappointed to find one hairstyle or a single deforce shirt can take up over a gig of space on my hard drive, it's never mentioned in the product description at Daz, and other sites have at least read me files and a way to contact the vendor if you have questions before purchasing. DazStudio is very complex and can do many things, but it's also full of quirks and bugs that can derail dozens of hours of work with a simple "error" that says it can not render or that simulation failed, see log files. And when you do it does not give you a hint of what went wrong. The Tech people at Daz are horrible about support.

I think the industry is getting very nervous about AI, it seems it will replace artists very quickly and further devalue what we do. But what can we do except keep doing what we love to do?
ZenMaster3D  
#20 Posted : Sunday, February 18, 2024 11:21:17 AM(UTC)
ZenMaster3D

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Originally Posted by: Zeppelin Go to Quoted Post
I think the industry is getting very nervous about AI, it seems it will replace artists very quickly and further devalue what we do. But what can we do except keep doing what we love to do?


At the risk of going offtopic but... AI is the most overhyped sales model there is, people aren't even fully clear on what they define as "AI". I mean... if I use Photoshop's smart repair / enhancement: is that AI? In a sense it is, but at the same time it also works based on cause / effect.


I've seen audio tools which can compose a beat of their own now suddenly be touted as "AI" while only 3 years ago that same tool was simply called for what it is: automation.


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