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contedesfees  
#21 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2022 10:26:59 PM(UTC)
contedesfees

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Competition is the engine of innovation. I still remember a software developer arguing: "Let's not do what they do; let's do what they don't." DAZ3D does seem to be thinking along those lines.


Live long and render
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Fixer on 9/26/2022(UTC), Blir on 9/26/2022(UTC), billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
TheBitterGent  
#22 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2022 2:06:52 AM(UTC)
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Poser fans have been carrying around a skeleton deader than dirt since Genesis 2 IMO.
Psst ... and sad to say but Daz has a foot or two in the grave with Blender's strides.

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banditcameraman on 9/26/2022(UTC), billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Godless8  
#23 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2022 10:58:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post

-If using Iray, and mind you, that's about all people support anymore, it is a WYSIWYG preview. No more guessing if the shadows and lighting is going to look like they do in poser preview versus the final render. You get what you see. PBR was dabbled with, but they never address transparencies with it and that's fucking useless. What is useful about the PBR preview is that it's fast, not color or texture accurate, but very fast previewing, then you can do an iray preview and final render. Hint, switch back to PBR preview before doing an iray render, that way your machine won't be trying to do two iray processes at a time.


Actually, and unless that has changed. If you do an iray preview and then press render while it's still in iray preview, it takes less time to load all the files and starts rendering faster.


As for those struggling with the render times and noises. Go to render settings tab, look under filters and enable denoiser. "post denoiser available -> post denoiser enable".


This will drastically reduce the time you need to render an image. Something that takes an hour could be done in 10 minutes. Naturally that's all relative, lighting, scene, hardware, etc all matter too. But it helps a lot.


GPU wise, if you are able to get your hands on an RTX 3060 12G. You will be set. You will render fast and be able to render decently sized scenes.


Tentacles! Tentacles everywhere!

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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Hellboy  
#24 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2022 12:08:21 PM(UTC)
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It's been finished since long ago.


I mean, their catchphrase is "Feel the Poser Pulse getting stronger" with a hospital pulse line. So inviting.


It may still have a couple of die-hard users, which is nice, but as living software, its days are long gone. The last compatible figures are Generation 4 (We are at 9 now).


I doubt the content store it was sold to has what it takes to elevate the software and figures up to today's standards, and even if they did, it's a bit too late for that. I don't even think that was their goal when they bought it anyway.


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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Hellboy  
#25 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2022 12:54:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Blir Go to Quoted Post


No offense intended, but when I read about "if you want the latest advancements and highest quality" I translate that as "You need to buy a new computer with a top of the line dedicated NVIDIA graphics card and even then you'll wait and wait and wait for those perfect renders to complete."  I do my work on a 15" laptop with relatively low level integrated Intel graphics.  My final renders are usually done in less than 15 minutes @ 300 dpi for 9x7" images.  May not be the prettiest work, but I can produce a lot of images fairly quickly and that works for me.



My Iray renders are done in seconds or a couple of minutes at much with a 3080 (no scene optimization or denoise needed). Before that, still super fast with a 1080 ti, before that, I had a 2011 Mac with a crappy integrated card. Now that was slow but did the work all the same. Certainly, a good graphics card helps and I consider it an investment, but there is no "need" to spend on the latest technology to enjoy what DAZ Studio offers.


Iray is just one of DAZ Studio's engines anyway. It also has Octane, 3Delight and Filament (real-time).


 


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DAZ STUDIO USER SINCE 2006
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Blir on 9/26/2022(UTC), billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
wrbrook  
#26 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2022 2:21:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fixer Go to Quoted Post


See I'm in my 60's now and have spent a ton of money on Poser over the years, much of it won't work in DS so I'm told. So not only will I need to learn how to use DS, I would also need to spend big on resources for it....


It's a tough decision to make, but when I see how DS is racing away it does make me question how long I can carry on using inferior software.......



I don't think that's true. Sure, there are occasional things that don't work, but I brought across everything from Poser when I started with Daz 10 years ago, and in fact I still buy 'poser only' stuff from time to time. You can usually make it work one way or another, sometimes very well indeed - I have a collection of shaders which I use to re-surface poser stuff, particularly metallic stuff - they look great in Daz with a modest amount of work.  


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Fixer on 9/27/2022(UTC), billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
kanshinin  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2022 4:55:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wrbrook Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Fixer Go to Quoted Post


See I'm in my 60's now and have spent a ton of money on Poser over the years, much of it won't work in DS so I'm told. So not only will I need to learn how to use DS, I would also need to spend big on resources for it....


It's a tough decision to make, but when I see how DS is racing away it does make me question how long I can carry on using inferior software.......



I don't think that's true. Sure, there are occasional things that don't work, but I brought across everything from Poser when I started with Daz 10 years ago, and in fact I still buy 'poser only' stuff from time to time. You can usually make it work one way or another, sometimes very well indeed - I have a collection of shaders which I use to re-surface poser stuff, particularly metallic stuff - they look great in Daz with a modest amount of work.  



Agreed.  I can use 9o% of my poser products seamlessly in DAZ.  The only thing I can are the Poser material files, and some of the clothing for V4/M4 looks odd on the G8 characters


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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Masterstroke  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2022 6:27:56 AM(UTC)
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Architecture, props and environment and legacy rigged Poser figures- (up to Sydney, Miki 2, Victoria 4, ) with their clothes work fine in DAZ studio. For IRAY, you need to convert shader. 
What does not work are figures, that are capsule rigged or weight mapped rigged. Would be any figure since Poser 8, that doesn't work.


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Fixer on 9/29/2022(UTC), billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
G315t  
#29 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2022 7:42:38 AM(UTC)
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If they won't invest a huge sum in some serious development and compatibility with the DAZ stuff, and also make the core software free (because that will draw in people) then Poser will be gone in a few years. It is not a bad software, I always liked it and still some people use it (even my V4 Pose sets sell from time to time, so people still use V4) but it's very clearly that it is not up to today's standards anymore in many areas.
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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
StrongFang  
#30 Posted : Friday, September 30, 2022 2:29:54 PM(UTC)
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I do pretty much all animations. I switched from Poser to the Reallusion software (now up to Character Creator 4 and iClone 8) several years ago. I only use Poser to export its props and animations into Reallusion. Reallusion renders incredibly quickly. For things that rendered overnight in Poser, I render equivalent them in about 10 minutes or less, and in UHD. Using a first generation graphics processor card (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970) I can successfully render three thousand UHD iRay frames at 60 frames per second (50 seconds, almost a full minute) in that 10 minutes. Just enough time to go get myself a cup of coffee. Dynamic cloth, dynamic hair, spring effects for bouncing boobs and balls...and both scanned humans and motion capture for ultra-realistic movements and looks. The limit for me is no longer the rendering time, it's the scene setup, which I would much rather spend time on. The Reallusion software isn't free, but if you wait for a sale it's roughly comparable to a couple of Poser releases. I'm sure if I upgraded to a hot new GPU the animations would render before I could even push the start button. I'll keep buying those lottery tickets. 

Edited by user Friday, September 30, 2022 2:32:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Blir  
#31 Posted : Friday, September 30, 2022 3:46:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: StrongFang Go to Quoted Post


I do pretty much all animations. I switched from Poser to the Reallusion software (now up to Character Creator 4 and iClone 8) several years ago. I only use Poser to export its props and animations into Reallusion. Reallusion renders incredibly quickly. For things that rendered overnight in Poser, I render equivalent them in about 10 minutes or less, and in UHD. Using a first generation graphics processor card (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970) I can successfully render three thousand UHD iRay frames at 60 frames per second (50 seconds, almost a full minute) in that 10 minutes. Just enough time to go get myself a cup of coffee. Dynamic cloth, dynamic hair, spring effects for bouncing boobs and balls...and both scanned humans and motion capture for ultra-realistic movements and looks. The limit for me is no longer the rendering time, it's the scene setup, which I would much rather spend time on. The Reallusion software isn't free, but if you wait for a sale it's roughly comparable to a couple of Poser releases. I'm sure if I upgraded to a hot new GPU the animations would render before I could even push the start button. I'll keep buying those lottery tickets. 



I looked at your gallery.  Your animations are truly amazing, but the software that produces them (Reallusion) is pretty pricey and I suspect beyond the capabilities of my lowly laptop.  I like this 3d hobby, but the Realiusion world is beyond my willingness to invest.  But, please keep posting videos.  They are very, very good.


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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
ZenMaster3D  
#32 Posted : Thursday, October 6, 2022 4:48:44 PM(UTC)
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Disclaimer: I've always been a Daz Studio user, and all I know about Poser is that Daz is also compatible with it. I looked into Poser once, and ... nothing.


Thing is...  I sometimes like doing stupid things, I sometimes also do things in favor of this website because from my POV...  this place is amazing in itself.


Some time ago I willingly bought into a "Poser only" erotic content model from this website assuming that I would be able to use parts of it in DS considering the Power compatibility layer. However, I realized that I was taking a gamble and accepted this first and foremost.


As one could expect I couldn't use all of it but....  I did manage to "cheat" my way around it utilizing features from Daz Studio, ZBrush and some other gizmos. Let's just say that it really made me appreciate the Poser software and its capabilities even though I never used it for myself and never will.


 


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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Redsup  
#33 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2022 8:05:29 PM(UTC)
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This makes me sad. I've been using Poser for a very long time, but I've been thinking more and more about making the jump to Daz.


What's scary for me  is the learning curve with Daz, and the fact that I've assets I've built over the many years and with many dollars that I'd hate to lose. I'm reading that many are importable to Daz with some material changes, but still. 


I know Poser at this point like the back of my hand and it's easy for me to create renders knowing where everything is and how to manipulate it to achieve the result I want. Switching to another software and starting from scratch is a bit intimidating.


I was really hoping the new owners would save it and work on new models and the like...but after one look at Le Femme and a few abortive attempt at using the character my heart sank. It doesn't even match the now ancient V4 figure that I'm still using.


If there truly is no hope left for Poser I am a sad man, and I absolutely dread having to move to Daz.

The Curator of Downworld.
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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
matt  
#34 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2022 9:19:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Redsup Go to Quoted Post


This makes me sad. I've been using Poser for a very long time, but I've been thinking more and more about making the jump to Daz.


What's scary for me  is the learning curve with Daz, and the fact that I've assets I've built over the many years and with many dollars that I'd hate to lose. I'm reading that many are importable to Daz with some material changes, but still. 


I know Poser at this point like the back of my hand and it's easy for me to create renders knowing where everything is and how to manipulate it to achieve the result I want. Switching to another software and starting from scratch is a bit intimidating.


I was really hoping the new owners would save it and work on new models and the like...but after one look at Le Femme and a few abortive attempt at using the character my heart sank. It doesn't even match the now ancient V4 figure that I'm still using.


If there truly is no hope left for Poser I am a sad man, and I absolutely dread having to move to Daz.



I get you there. I was very intimidated. I kept looking at the assets for Studio here and at other places, wishing that Poser could make use of them. But I kept going back to Poser because like you, I had years of experience with it. 


This is what I did: I kept using Poser to kill time and make renders, but I downloaded Studio and started learning how it was different, how it was similar, and where I needed to start. Within a week or two of doing that, I was able to light a scene properly enough to make a somewhat satisfactory image. As time went on, I was using Poser less and less, and I was actually starting to buy some of the assets for Studio that I'd been wanting. 


Eventually, I closed Poser down for the last time, and I haven't looked back. YouTube was instrumental in the changeover, Sickleyield's videos being especially helpful when it came to learning the lights, which were a major frustration at first but actually very simple to use once I knew what I was looking at. 


I won't tell you what software to use to enjoy your hobby, but if you're thinking about switching, it doesn't have to be overnight.


 


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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
Hellboy  
#35 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2022 12:13:11 AM(UTC)
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I started using design software with Photoimpact. I was very stubborn about not using Photoshop for the same reasons mentioned, but after it was bought by Corel and abandoned, it was clear I had to move on. It wasn't as hard as I convinced myself and in no time I got very used to it. Now I can't even imagine using Photoimpact ever again.

The thing with Generation 4 is that they are not Poser figures, they are DAZ Studio figures. They work in DAZ Studio. Some Poser-specific materials or scrips won't work, but pretty much everything works all the same. Not to mention the newer figures are very backward compatible. I've used Generation 3 content without issues.

You don't have to abandon Poser and learn everything in a week. You could just play around with DAZ Studio here and there and see where it goes.
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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC)
billyben  
#36 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2022 2:37:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Godless8 Go to Quoted Post


GPU wise, if you are able to get your hands on an RTX 3060 12G. You will be set. You will render fast and be able to render decently sized scenes.



Oh, that's funny, that is the exact video card I have (EVGA RTX 3060 12 GB).  I also used to game a lot and have always had a decent mid to upper range rig for gaming and the last AMD (ATI) card I had was an old 9800.


I tried to use Poser back in the day but I was moving from DAZ Studio to Poser (was given a copy by a friend when he quit doing digital art due to eye issues) and after using DAZ, I never got the hang of Poser and quickly went back to DAZ.


Bill
I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused
Masterstroke  
#37 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2022 3:14:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Redsup Go to Quoted Post


..., but I've been thinking more and more about making the jump to Daz.


What's scary for me  is the learning curve with Daz, and the fact that I've assets I've built over the many years and with many dollars that I'd hate to lose. I'm reading that many are importable to Daz with some material changes, but still. 
...



If you actually jump over to DAZ Studio, it might help to know, that the most powerful tools in DS are hidden in right click menus.


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billyben on 10/22/2022(UTC), BrimstoneOmega on 10/22/2022(UTC)
BigBlueProstatePoker  
#38 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2022 8:59:58 AM(UTC)
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I would actually question learning Daz. If you're on Poser and going to invest the time to learn a new system from scratch, I would just go directly to Blender. With all the strides that Blender is making and the writing on the wall with Daz in the long term, just skip Daz and go straight to Blender.

And before someone jumps in, Nvidia doesn't even acknowledge Daz in any of its materials or benchmarks. They mention Blender all the time. With how deeply embedded Daz is with Nvidia at this point, I think it's a pretty damning statement that they never acknowledge them, but do Blender.
Masterstroke  
#39 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2022 9:30:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BigBlueProstatePoker Go to Quoted Post
I would actually question learning Daz. If you're on Poser and going to invest the time to learn a new system from scratch, I would just go directly to Blender. With all the strides that Blender is making and the writing on the wall with Daz in the long term, just skip Daz and go straight to Blender.

And before someone jumps in, Nvidia doesn't even acknowledge Daz in any of its materials or benchmarks. They mention Blender all the time. With how deeply embedded Daz is with Nvidia at this point, I think it's a pretty damning statement that they never acknowledge them, but do Blender.


In order to have a decent zoo of figures, you'll either go to DAZ and then to Blender or Iclone and then to Blender. 
Poser figures are outdated and cannot reach up to modern standards.


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Hellboy on 10/22/2022(UTC)
wurger  
#40 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2022 7:23:47 PM(UTC)
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DS and Blender are apples and oranges. If you aren't a figure modeler, you can't "skip' DS and go straight to Blender. If someone is a Poser user, and feels that the product and content has stagnated, and they don't want to, or can't, drop $$ on RealIllusion, DS is the only real choice.

I spent 20+ years doing professional archviz with 3DS DOS and 3DS Max, and to this day, I can't build a figure model that looks good to save my life.

Skipping DS and going straight to Blender is unrealistic for a vast majority of the Poser/DS user base.
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matt on 10/23/2022(UTC)
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