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Renderotica
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Proposal - First render day!
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I've been thinking a lot about the recent forum posts from Blir and xxjafoxxx. Both seem similar to me, in a way, as both connect to new artists. Blir made an excellent point about trying to welcome new people into the community and xxjafoxxx was wondering if they should take down old work. We have a lot of long term artists in this community. I remember when I first started rendering. I had no clue what I was doing, how Daz functioned, hadn't added anything to my content library, and desperately wanted to make the art I wanted to see. I had also lurked on here for a couple years and felt like my work would be subpar compared to others. It was humbling and overwhelming, and I still feel imposter syndrome. I think that's why many don't post their work, or give up.
So now I propose: First Render Day! We'll do it on, say, this Monday the 25th. Go find the first render you ever made, or the earliest one you remember, and post it in your gallery. New artists, do the same! Everyone started somewhere, and it's great to see that some of your favorite artists took years to hone their craft. Everyone can get better through time.
Just add 'First Render' in the name, and first_render in the tag. For instance, I'll be posting 'Dragon Attack - First Render'. If you've been creating for a while please add a description of what you'd do now, what you've learned since then, what you like and don't like about it. If you're new, talk about how it differs from what you wanted, or ask suggestions on how to make it better. We can even start a thread here to link to them!
Let's do this!
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Rank: Advanced Member
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If we are being honest, my first render was using Poser 2.0. My point is, the tools were extremely crude. The work would reflect it and it would be unfair to compare a render from 2005 in Poser 2.0 and compare it to a Daz render in 2022. I also had an extremely limited budget. It was tough seeing other artists with deep pockets buy and use the products you wanted to use but couldn't. Life is not fair. You can go way back on my gallery timeline and you will see sub-par work, because of the tools and the limited knowledge I had at the time. Newbies should take advantage of the old timers struggle (like mine) to get better and use it as inspiration to do your own work. There is no shortcut to dedication and experience. Just my opinion.
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Wow, Zepplin! You've been posting here for 13 years!
That alone, should be worth something even though you (incorrectly) believe the work is sub-par. Everyone's work improves with time and practice.
That's also why comments (which are pretty rare in my experience), views and likes are valuable as sometimes they provide ideas for new pics or suggestions for improving the scene. They also tell you what visitors like and don't like. Some of the stuff I worked on and really liked bombed with viewers.
I sometimes save my pz3 files for the pics I like and then, sometimes re-do them. You should consider that with your earlier works (assuming one can even import Poser 2.0 files).
BTW, I upvoted several of your older posts with 5 likes. I hope it sends some points your way to use on future purchases.
I think the "First Renders" idea is a good one even if it proves to be humiliating <grin>.
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Cool idea. Easy mode for me, my first Daz render and Rotica post is the first image in my gallery.
If I could find the first ever render I did, in 3D Studio R3 DOS...whew.
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Actually I've been posting for longer than 13 years, the time frames reset when the site was relaunched. I do redo the ones I like in a new style, and you are correct, sometimes the pieces you work on the hardest and really care about get few likes. There is no way to tell what is popular. Sometimes you toss off one and it gets lots of likes. Thanks for the likes, btw, I appreciate them.
Back in the day. Renderotica had a Star system instead of Likes. Posting one star meant you dissed the work and gave it only one star. If you really liked something you gave it four or five stars. You also knew who posted what review. This led to a lot of infighting and feuds and reprisal one-stars, not a great system. Admins were caught in the crossfire. When the site tooled over it took a long time for people to catch on. So the really old work's likes do not really reflect what was the system at the time.
I certainly do not want to discourage new artists. I find the artists here are very warm and welcoming and share advice very freely. If we did have a First Post day, then I suppose we should also say what year, system and version of the software you were using so viewers would have a context of when the work was created.
As far as constructive criticism, I find that artists are sensitive creatures (myself included) and sometimes take advice the wrong way, or they bristle at being critiqued in a public forum. There should be a way to have a back channel one-on-one from a source you respect, and then it could actually do some good. Maybe solicit comments in your private messages.
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If my computer dates are correct, I've been composing 3d works in Poser since 2011 (maybe Poser 9, but I dunno, that software has long since disappeared into the ether). Back then, I did not realize that the preview window was not the rendered image. When I finally figured out that I needed to render images, rendering took more than 30 minutes or even overnight since I had not sprung for Poser Pro and did all my work on a graphics-unfriendly laptop. Lights, cameras, textures and more than clicking on a pose set, forgetta about it. I used Photopaint for digital art work, mostly colorized line art. (I still Paintshop (the evolution of PhotoPaint) for post work.) Compared to Zeppelin, I'm still a rank newbee. My 2011 images are mostly a dumpster fire compared to what people routinely post here. I'll not be sharing those. The star system sounds like a mess. My first posts in Oct 2019 were inspired by the Halloween contest. I was sure I'd get some sort of honorable mention, but the contests always blow my posts away. I worked really hard on this image posted in Oct 2019: https://www.renderotica....e=11&artistname=blirbut it attracted few view or likes, My opinion of my work is often not shared by others.
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People's tastes are varied, especially when it comes to sex. I wouldn't take it personally, the work shows care and attention to detail. Keep on doing what you like, you only have to please yourself
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3 users thanked Zeppelin for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: Blir  If my computer dates are correct, I've been composing 3d works in Poser since 2011 (maybe Poser 9, but I dunno, that software has long since disappeared into the ether). Back then, I did not realize that the preview window was not the rendered image. When I finally figured out that I needed to render images, rendering took more than 30 minutes or even overnight since I had not sprung for Poser Pro and did all my work on a graphics-unfriendly laptop. Lights, cameras, textures and more than clicking on a pose set, forgetta about it. I used Photopaint for digital art work, mostly colorized line art. (I still Paintshop (the evolution of PhotoPaint) for post work.)
Compared to Zeppelin, I'm still a rank newbee. My 2011 images are mostly a dumpster fire compared to what people routinely post here. I'll not be sharing those.
The star system sounds like a mess.
My first posts in Oct 2019 were inspired by the Halloween contest. I was sure I'd get some sort of honorable mention, but the contests always blow my posts away.
I worked really hard on this image posted in Oct 2019:
https://www.renderotica....e=11&artistname=blir
but it attracted few view or likes, My opinion of my work is often not shared by others.
Holy shit! I didn't realize I first started posting earlier than you! It makes sense, since you've been making art since 2011, why your art is so much better. You're one of the people I look up to on here.
My third post was for a halloween contest as well. I was sure I would get a prize, after all my picture was superb! Then I saw the skill and expertise of the winners (and honestly, most everyone else...) and almost quit. I'd never be that good. I still ain't. That's why I proposed this. New artists look at some of their favorites and think 'I should quit.' I want them to know that we were all terrible origionaly, that it takes time to learn and grow. That their favorite artists were once scared newbies, trying their best.
Dumpster fires are amazing! My first, that I'll be posting on Monday, was done on a Microsoft Surface. The original one. I thought it was the best thing ever, didn't realize Iray uses Nvidia, had no ram, and took over an hour for a single Genesis 3 and small dragon. Most of my early posts are from that. Then I bought a laptop, still not understanding the Nvidia/Iray connection and did a lot of art on that. I have a better (if not great) desktop now.
p.s. The star system sounds horrible. I'm glad we don't do that anymore.
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It's true that you get better by being around people that are very good, studying what you like about the art, and trying to bring that quality to your work. That said, everyone has a different style, which can be hard to compare. Grandma Moses and John Singer Sargent are both famous representative artists, but comparing their art is not a productive endeavor.
One more point and then I'll stop: People come here thinking that the process and the results will be easy to achieve. Daz has pre-made modules and poses and costumes and settings, but the program is very robust with a lot of different aspects and layers. It takes me a long time to get manually posed figures to mimic real life poses, a lot of observation and trial an error takes place. Say you know, from a reference photo, that the pose is quite possible, but when trying to execute you run into pose limitations, overlapping limbs, collisions, etc. I think of each scene like building a ship in a bottle. It's a long process that is its own reward at the end. Pose, lighting, background detail and post work must all be developed in tandem. So newbies, don't get discouraged, just have a realistic expectation about what you are attempting. Everything worthwhile takes dedication and time. And don't be afraid to ask other artists how they did something, they will probably be flattered to tell you. Also YouTube has excellent tutorials and you can Google specific problems and get advice from the Daz forum. Use Google and not the search engine in the Daz forum, it sucks.
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Fuck I'm in. On Monday, you will see my first renders ever, Poser 4, back in 2001, 21 years! I had to scour the internet and find the old website I first posted at cuz I don't even have the hard drives from back then anymore.
Davo
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Originally Posted by: davo Fuck I'm in. On Monday, you will see my first renders ever, Poser 4, back in 2001, 21 years! I had to scour the internet and find the old website I first posted at cuz I don't even have the hard drives from back then anymore.
Davo
Thanks! You went over and above, and I appreciate it!
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Being honest here I'm not sure anyone would want to see my first render ever. I can say I made a lot of mistakes on it, Rendered with OpenGL on a transparent background, also used the default Aiko 3 base figure without any textures added, so it looks kind of rough.
Though it is still uploaded in my DA gallery and I have the file on one of my computers (I think I moved it over to my new work computer, or main backup drive, if not it should be on the old HP still)
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So you all know, I posted three today. I tried to post five, but it got stuck after I wrote their descriptions and I didn't realize until I had to go to work.
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I got mine in the gallery, don't laugh, Posette was the best we had back then.
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Originally Posted by: davo I got mine in the gallery, don't laugh, Posette was the best we had back then.
No reason to laugh, it holds up to this day!
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Was thanked: 183 time(s) in 139 post(s)
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Thank you again, to everyone that cringed at their old work yet posted anyway! I hope it's shown the new artists that some of their favorites were new once as well. You can always improve with dedication and practice. And if you'd like to learn how to do a specific thing you want to know how to do: we're here. We don't bite (unless you like that...)
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@Bumper2 , this was a fun idea. Thanks for proposing it. I certainly got lost in looking at all the stuff I posted way back when.
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What kind of sucks! Is I searched and searched for the first render I did, but across several drives I couldn't find it, and it doesn't appear I ever uploaded it to DA like I thought. (First render that shows up is Forest, which still shows improvement over the years)
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Originally Posted by: BrotherHades
What kind of sucks! Is I searched and searched for the first render I did, but across several drives I couldn't find it, and it doesn't appear I ever uploaded it to DA like I thought. (First render that shows up is Forest, which still shows improvement over the years)
No worries! Thanks for trying, and hope you enjoyed seeing everything else!
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I got one uploaded, even if a bit late.
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