Renderotica

Originally Posted by: ZenMaster3D

 Now, I say this as a rather devoted Daz Studio user myself but there's a reason (of course). Ever heard of Bryce? Or what about Hexagon (I prefer ZBrush myself but before I could afford it I used Hexagon for years). 

Then your not going to look at things from any other point of view are you? Again, 3DS and Maya or even Blender. Again, as I said, don't move from Poser if you're happy in using it, regardless of how many die hard DAZ lovers are out there. My point is, for the cost and single renders use DAZ, (I don't bash) and use poser if you want to do other stuff.

For your information, I just don't use Poser (Which means I'm not a die hard fanatic) 

So again, for the person keeping to Poser, use it if your happy with it! 

Originally Posted by: battlestrength

 

I don't think it's a very important feature to discuss, because you're talking about two different things. Last I checked Poser doesn't use GPU for networked renders so you're looking basically for a huge multiprocessor server for rendering if you're using this option... which for most users is not feasible or economical, especially if you're not doing animation. So yeah it's free in poser, but you've spent a bit for the server to set up (maybe a grand or two), and possibly another copy of poser depending on the licensing

 

Mmmmm. Wrong. Cost wise. It's cheaper to run multiple older machines (and the electricity) than purchasing a high end graphics card. Ever heard of auctions? Nope? It's a place where you pick up a nice little bulk farm for basically a couple of hundred dollars, then it's just setup and bingo. Cheaper, easier and way you go.

Btw you saying it's not "a very important feature" shows your lack of foresight, using a farm, it's not all about animation... sheesh! 

But we're talking time. You're doing network rendering because you want your job quicker, NOT cheaper.  Those networked machines are not going to be nearly effective at getting the job done than my two videocards. You have to offload that job to a dedicated network server because it's going to take hours or days to complete. Your electric bill will be HIGHER because you're running those machines for hours, compared to my seven minutes. So again it's NOT an important feature if you have the right hardware and software to get the job done. And I thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. 

Originally Posted by: Hellboy

Originally Posted by: matt

I want a 3090 because of the 24GB of RAM. The 3080 has barely more than my 1080i.I need POWER!!

Oh yeah! The VRam made me consider the 3090. But I can render a SubD 5 Genesis 8 with the 3080, which in terms of geometry is like having 1024 Genesis figures in the scene lol, so I'm really not needing more than that and the extra $1100 was a bit too much. 

That doesn't mean I don't want one. 

I bought a Titan RTX before the who gpu pricing went insanity crazy in 2020. Best decision ever, 24gb lets you just finally forget the vram issue. The most I've ever gotten it to is 17gb of usage. The only thing I have noticed is once you hit a certain level, you need more than 64gb of system ram to transfer the scene to render if you have iray preview also running and other programs. 

Originally Posted by: ZenMaster3D

Feeling the need to somewhat talk down onto others just because they stick with an older product has a rather outspoken name as well.

I repeat:

Please don't imagine that I am suggesting that something is wrong with those who use Poser and stick to it because of their financial commitment. I intended no such thing. I merely wished to broadcast that the behaviour had caught the attention of economists and that they had derived a term to describe it. Admittedly, "fallacy" seems a pejorative term, which is unfortunate because nothing was further from my mind.
Carry on with whatever makes you happy! Everybody! Take a valium.

I had no intention of talking down to anyone! Nor do I feel any need to do so! It was, I underline, "an interesting bit of pure trivia."

Edited by user Friday, August 13, 2021 10:33:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

V4 stuff used to work fine in DAZ but with one of their latest updates... all V4 Ik have to be deleted every time you add a V4 or IK fucks up V4 posing with translation.

Poser became a community shared process and every newbie was helped along. DAZ is completely profit driven and even their paid tutorials don't help you much. Everything's for sale. And this ideology has spread across the entire community. Sell sell sell. That's all that matters now.

DAZ could by now have developed IK like Poser that was actually useful but they don't... because it makes it easy for the user. Better instead to leave it to 3rd party vendors to create some work around and sell it.

When DAZ got the IRAY license they pretty much completely dumped 3delight support and all vendors moved immediately to IRAY... when 3delight is a very powerful render engine. But not as quickly profitable as IRAY. IRAY demands you spend money on an nvidia and ONLY an nvidia graphics card that can render quickly or you're basically fucked.

When DAZ started the Genesis characters they offered it as a character who could be male and female. But holy shit... they discovered they screwed themselves out of profits and quickly went back to male and female only characters with genesis 2 and onward.

They could make each genesis character multi-gendered but they don't... because profits.

Poser has fantastic materials but is limited to V4 and many V4 supporting stores have faded and the big stores that remain are deleting their v4 content more and more. But still, if you don't have the money to buy a cadillac computer to handle IRAY, then V4 in Poser is perfectly fine. I've seen artists make V4 renders 10+n years ago that, with postwork magic, look better than the default IRAY renders. 

Photorealism doesn't mean better. It means... that shitty expression stands out. That shitty pose stands out. The realistic shadows cover the eyes so you can see where the character's looking. The render looks great but the hair looks fake or weird. Photorealism brings with it a ton of new challanges because REAL people are not symmetrical and the human eye can tell it's fake even more because it the shadows look real. To make photorealism look real you have to add fakes to trick the eye.

So, Poser is absolutely fine. I've seen folks in 2001 make photorealistic art with Poser 3... with photoshop magic. 

Poser is fine

Originally Posted by: Finister

V4 stuff used to work fine in DAZ but with one of their latest updates... all V4 Ik have to be deleted every time you add a V4 or IK fucks up V4 posing with translation.

Poser became a community shared process and every newbie was helped along. DAZ is completely profit driven and even their paid tutorials don't help you much. Everything's for sale. And this ideology has spread across the entire community. Sell sell sell. That's all that matters now.

DAZ could by now have developed IK like Poser that was actually useful but they don't... because it makes it easy for the user. Better instead to leave it to 3rd party vendors to create some work around and sell it.

When DAZ got the IRAY license they pretty much completely dumped 3delight support and all vendors moved immediately to IRAY... when 3delight is a very powerful render engine. But not as quickly profitable as IRAY. IRAY demands you spend money on an nvidia and ONLY an nvidia graphics card that can render quickly or you're basically fucked.

When DAZ started the Genesis characters they offered it as a character who could be male and female. But holy shit... they discovered they screwed themselves out of profits and quickly went back to male and female only characters with genesis 2 and onward.

They could make each genesis character multi-gendered but they don't... because profits.

Poser has fantastic materials but is limited to V4 and many V4 supporting stores have faded and the big stores that remain are deleting their v4 content more and more. But still, if you don't have the money to buy a cadillac computer to handle IRAY, then V4 in Poser is perfectly fine. I've seen artists make V4 renders 10+n years ago that, with postwork magic, look better than the default IRAY renders. 

Photorealism doesn't mean better. It means... that shitty expression stands out. That shitty pose stands out. The realistic shadows cover the eyes so you can see where the character's looking. The render looks great but the hair looks fake or weird. Photorealism brings with it a ton of new challanges because REAL people are not symmetrical and the human eye can tell it's fake even more because it the shadows look real. To make photorealism look real you have to add fakes to trick the eye.

So, Poser is absolutely fine. I've seen folks in 2001 make photorealistic art with Poser 3... with photoshop magic. 

Poser is fine

There's a lot of uninformed stuff in your post! 

"They could make each genesis character multi-gendered but they don't... because profits." - no because the vendors had trouble making clothing like dresses because the base character didn't have breasts, so it was a lot of unnecessary trial and error. Separating the genders brought back the more sexy clothing people buy instead of the the mostly unisex clothing that was made with the first genesis.

" DAZ is completely profit driven' -  Every company is profit driven otherwise employees can't be paid! Smith Micro was profit driven too, and couldn't make it off of Poser so they sold it. 

See what I mean? Seriously, it's been over a decade.. let it go!

Originally Posted by: Masterstroke

Originally Posted by: Finister

 I've seen artists make V4 renders 10+n years ago that, with postwork magic, look better than the default IRAY renders. 

I have never seen that. Where?

Erogenesis, Kunimasa (A.K.A. Minefujiko), and Eclesi4stik used Poser to great effect. Admittedly, the last two have switched to DAZ Studio, but Erogenesis is still producing top notch, indeed expert, renders using Poser.
I do see your point, of course. Iray renders do at a glance seem better informed that those produced by Firefly and Superfly. And Erogenesis doesn't use V4; he developed what he calls "Erogirl," his own character mesh, which he continually improves.
My point? Poser renders can equal and even surpass Iray renders, but it seems - at least to me - to require the technical command of an expert. With all due respect to kunimasa and Eclesi4stick whose Poser skills are manifest, artists of more limited skills and more modest accomplishment (I do mean me and me alone) switch to DAZ Studio. And I underline that, although kunimasa is silent on the matter, Eclesi4stik has bluntly stated that the superiority of the Genesis mesh over V4 prompted his decision to change tools.
Finally, woe is me! I forgot to mention the super-talented Marcopol, whose gallery of art-inspired Poser renders appears at another web site whose name begins with the letter "r."

Edited by user Friday, August 20, 2021 10:23:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Poser feels like the EX-Partner, you don't want to be reminded of.

Hardly a case of comparing who's software dick is larger when Poser doesn't even have a dick anymore.

What would actually help to stay on topic is if non-DAZ Studio users stopped sharing subjective, false DAZ Studio info from 10 years ago and actually concentrate on the topic at hand.

DAZ STUDIO USER SINCE 2006