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Not Parting with Poser after Spending Money on It?
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Being reluctant to stop using Poser, feeling necessarily committed to it, because you've spent a good deal of money on the software and the assets is a syndrome with a name! Believe it or not, among behavioural economists it's known as "sunk-cost fallacy!" And apparently it manifests itself in other ways. Buying the upgrades even though the original software serves your needs perfectly well and you never even use the new features. Getting new shoes because, after all, you bought a new suit the week before. Staying at the conference, and the hotel, even after you've attended the only presentations that actually mattered to you.
I'm rather glad I came across the term. I'll try to keep it in mind in the future. Live long and render
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Ha! There are lots of examples of the sunk cost fallacy in the real world, aka "throwing good money after bad."
For Poser and its legacy content that folks acquired, they may not be throwing good money after bad, but not willing to invest even more money in acquiring assets (characters, props, scenes, lighting, hair, clothes, etc) in a new platform (DAZ) and spending the time to become proficient in that new platform when their existing Poser collection and skill set is good enough for what they produce. In other words, "starting over." Are the renders using DAZ and the latest 8.75x Genesis character that much better that it justifies tossing Poser and all of one's acquired content?
I bought my first smart phone yesterday and traded in my ancient flip phone. My monthly bill will now be around $160 vs $60. Will that change be worth it, or will I just use my smart phone to make mostly voice calls for which my Kyocera flip phone did just fine?
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees 
Being reluctant to stop using Poser, feeling necessarily committed to it, because you've spent a good deal of money on the software and the assets is a syndrome with a name! Believe it or not, among behavioural economists it's known as "sunk-cost fallacy!" And apparently it manifests itself in other ways. Buying the upgrades even though the original software serves your needs perfectly well and you never even use the new features. Getting new shoes because, after all, you bought a new suit the week before. Staying at the conference, and the hotel, even after you've attended the only presentations that actually mattered to you.
I'm rather glad I came across the term. I'll try to keep it in mind in the future.
You and I discussed this quite extensively in the DM's, so I won't go over most of it, other than to reiterate that most assets for Poser work just fine in Studio, and converting them to Iray is a one click process. So...don't feel bad about all of the stuff that you've accumulated over the years, it's still workable. If you're concerned about the money that you spent on the software itself, ask yourself if you've gotten your 'money's worth' out of the time that you've spent with it, and if you're willing to keep paying for future upgrades. That was a big epiphany for me, I simply was not, considering what I knew Studio could do. Something to think about.
The biggest thing is...are you happy with the images that you can create in Poser? Does the content that you have allow you to put on the screen what you have in your head? If so, I wouldn't be in any rush to change platforms. You know my reasons, and I don't regret it, but we're all different.
Originally Posted by: Blir
Ha! There are lots of examples of the sunk cost fallacy in the real world, aka "throwing good money after bad."
For Poser and its legacy content that folks acquired, they may not be throwing good money after bad, but not willing to invest even more money in acquiring assets (characters, props, scenes, lighting, hair, clothes, etc) in a new platform (DAZ) and spending the time to become proficient in that new platform when their existing Poser collection and skill set is good enough for what they produce. In other words, "starting over." Are the renders using DAZ and the latest 8.75x Genesis character that much better that it justifies tossing Poser and all of one's acquired content?
The primary reason that I switched platforms and put in the time to learn Studio was grafts. Having the genitalia, which I add to nearly every custom character that I create at some point, be a literal part of the mesh was very intriguing to me, and I liked the look of the images that I was seeing being created with this tech. Here was my workflow with Poser, and Lali's Bits or HiroGens, the last ones that I messed with before I switched.
Step One: Load V4 or M4. Inject all of the morph packs into the figure (I sidestepped this by saving a version to the Library with all of the packs loaded, but it took me a while to figure that out). Time? At least 15 minutes. Some of those packs made me go grab a beer and take a leak.
Step Two: Apply the prop. Position it to the static pose. with HiroGens, this took some fucking time, as I had to use all of the morphs for the pelvis of the prop to get the distance just right, so that I wouldn't get weird artifacts in the render. Once in place, after looking at it from multiple angles, I'd parent it to the hip. Time: 30 to 40 minutes for HiroGens, not too long for Lali Bits, but the fun with that was about to come.
Step Three: Morph the character to what I had I had in mind. I still do this in DAZ, but it doesn't create all of the issues that I'll describe in the following steps, so the time that this could take is not included in my final tally.
Step Four: Pose the character. Well, fuck. Reposition the gen prop. Will it follow? Will it look OK from the angle that I plan to render? Maybe, maybe not. I'd find out. I'd discarded entire scene files after hours of work because I couldn't make it look natural. Time: Who even knows. It depended on the character's shape and how far I'd deviated from the base mesh shape. Sometimes I could do it in a few minutes, sometimes it would take hours, if I could do it at all.
Step Five, assuming I got to this point: Add lights and scenery, and render. Time: Irrelevant, as it takes me just as long to do this in DAZ.
Overall, this process would take me at least one evening, sometimes longer. That's not to say that I don't spend days creating a scene in DAZ, but the problems and adjusting that I had to do with Poser are simply not there, or are only minor tangents that take me minutes at most.
Now, my process with Studio:
Step one: Load G8. Load all of the Mor...never mind, they all load with the figure. Time: Maybe a minute?
Step Two: Add the genital graft. Positio...never mind, it's part of the mesh. Time: 30 seconds. NOTE: I will absolutely spend time on making the genitals unique to the character. I don't like cookie cutter dicks and pussies, and something that irritates the hell out of me is a very good render with an unmorphed Golden Palace with the default textures between the girl's legs. Just...no. It's a starting point. Real life pussies don't look like that. Put in the effort!
Step Three: Morph the character. I can do this in minutes, or I can take hours. This is part of my creative process. I like my characters to be MINE, not a cookie cutter that I bought from one of the stores. I'll use all or most of a morph, or just a little bit because I like what it does to the eyes or something. Time: Meh. It's the creative process, not problem solving.
Step Four: Pose the character. Move the gens...never mind. It's part of the mesh and still where it should be, looking like it should. Time: Depends on how long it takes me to tweak the pose to deal with intersections and unique shapes, but maybe 15 minutes?
Step five: Add lights and scenery, then render. The time that I saved by NOT having to move shit around every time the figure was moved was what sold me on Studio. Other little nuggets like autofit for clothing and hair were just icing on the cake. Yeah, this was long winded, but I'm making a point. Bondware has an uphill battle bringing Poser to Studio's level of ease of use in character creation. I can save an entire character with clothing and genitalia as a loadable figure. I tried that with Poser and lost months of work when I realized that loading multiple figures that were saved as a figure group caused massive crosstalk issues, something that doesn't even exist in Studio. I had to go back and redo every single one of them, sometimes without success.
Originally Posted by: Blir
I bought my first smart phone yesterday and traded in my ancient flip phone. My monthly bill will now be around $160 vs $60. Will that change be worth it, or will I just use my smart phone to make mostly voice calls for which my Kyocera flip phone did just fine?
Without wanting to derail the conversation, I'd just like to tell you that you WILL use the new features available to you. My iPhone and Apple Watch are indispensable. Find some apps that will be useful to you, like banking. If you text at all, you'll find it is much easier and faster now. I firmly believe that within a few months time, you won't regret it. I've been using a smartphone for over a decade, and it's become an integral part of me.
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I see it this way. those of you folks who switched from Poser to daz, if your happy with it, then I am happy for you
No doubt the images I have seen in the gallery far exceed what most can do using poser, and I say most mind you.
I was drawing and sketching in pencil and charcoal by the age of 10, during my senior year in high school my sketches of fem's was quite good. I would swing by the local drugstore and get some of the pulp magazines of that era and sneak them home and the sketch the images. Before graduation from High School several of my classmates and myself slipped into the High School Parking lot and painted the image of the Road Runner and proclaimed our class the FAST CLASS of 67, Shit it even made it in the yearbook
So when I stumbled u[on Poser 3 at a computer convention, I saw a way to fullfill my dreams and create comics.
Poser dork and Posette were not my ideal characters. But my knowledge of sketching allowed me to fix many flaws using A lite version of Photoshop 5
As the software improved so did the base figures at DAZ V-3 was a fav until V-4 came about. but it allowed me to create comics and there are 95 stories here, and 36+ at another site that does Transgender Sissy fantasies. I am happy with the art I create and even more so with the imaginative stories I spin with the images. And a Fan base that enjoys what I do both here and at my other site that caters to the LGBTQ community. My work here and at the other site has been reviewed and given high marks and I make a little money on the side that helps with my retirement. I can buy new computers, monitors and software but I stopped at P11 Not happy with that, so I used Pro 2014..
I make sure my V4 and M4 images are as free of flaws as my Post work skills will allow and then they are loaded into comic life, and my script is loaded in. I'm lucky to have a spouse who allows me to create and with her degree in English edit my stories, tho sometimes she gets a little engrossed and misses a few typo's
I did not need to invest in V5 back in the day and I do not need to invest in the Gen 8 version.
As I said if you love the software and are happy great. If you converted from Poser to DAZ and are happy, Great.
I am happy using Pro 2014 and that is Great I am not here to create a masterpiece , I'm here to create stories and visuals to express myself. I am a storyteller, and would not have it any other way. I'm soon to be 72 and with the time left to me I'm set in my ways and will create till I can no longer type or move a mouse across my mouse pad
Cheers one and all
Shadoman Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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shado, I get that. I really do. I used Poser from version 4 all the way up to the heyday of G3 in Studio, 2000-2016. I ranted at Daz for several years about abandoning the community that gave them their start, and I still stand by those comments to this day.
However, and this is all conjecture, I wonder if Smith Micro had a hand in that? I'm sure that Daz had been spending some time on tech like grafts, the main reason that I switched, and SM said that they weren't interested in spending the development money and time on integrating them into Poser? Again, conjecture, just armchair quarterbacking on my part, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once. Did Daz approach SM with the idea of implementing grafts into Poser? I seriously doubt we'll ever know, but we all know how it ended up.
I've spoken at length above about my reasons for switching, and the reasons that I'm happy about that, but I don't think that anyone that wants to stay with Poser is a 'stick in the mud' or a stalwart, especially if it still fits your art style and workflow. They're your tools, you know them, they do what you need. Don't change. I changed because for my intentions, for what I wanted to do, my tools were no longer adequate, and I could see the new tools in the store window, and saw the possibilities.
I also saw something else: new tools, new add-ons for my platform at the time, were drying up. New Gen4 content was becoming scarcer by the day. It was all Gen5, G2, G3. I'd see something really cool and want it, then see what it was based on, and put my wallet away.
I wanted to stay with Poser, I really did. I knew the interface like the back of my hand, I'd been using it for so long. But, to do what I want to do, I had to get new tools. If Bondware can get their shit in gear and really pump Poser up to the level that Studio is at, I might take another look at an old friend. Until then, I won't look back.
Keep doing what you do and being who you are, though. :)
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Please don't imagine that I am suggesting that something is wrong with those who use Poser and stick to it because of their financial commitment. I intended no such thing. I merely wished to broadcast that the behaviour had caught the attention of economists and that they had derived a term to describe it. Admittedly, "fallacy" seems a pejorative term, which is unfortunate because nothing was further from my mind.
Carry on with whatever makes you happy!  Everybody! Take a valium. Live long and render
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees
Please don't imagine that I am suggesting that something is wrong with those who use Poser and stick to it because of their financial commitment. I intended no such thing. I merely wished to broadcast that the behaviour had caught the attention of economists and that they had derived a term to describe it. Admittedly, "fallacy" seems a pejorative term, which is unfortunate because nothing was further from my mind.
Carry on with whatever makes you happy! Everybody! Take a valium.
I went through the same thought process, believe me! So much time and investment in one platform can make you stick with it, even though you can see something new and possibly better when you look out the window. I'm the same way, keep using Poser if it does what you want it to do. For me, it didn't anymore, and you and I have discussed that at length. And 'fallacy' merely means an incorrect assumption from flawed reasoning. If you stay with anything simply because you've tossed a lot of money at it, in spite of obviously better choices that would fit what you want to do, then you're making a financial error in the long run. That's not a remark to disparage Poser users, not at all. As I've said, if the platform fits your workflow and style, why move? Why change, and invest time and money into something else if your current toolkit does what you need? But if it doesn't...
Say you're at the drag races with a Subaru STi. You keep getting your ass handed to you by the guys and girls in the Audi 5 cylinder turbo cars. You want to do what they do, but your platform won't let you. So, what do you do? You can keep plunging cash into the STi hole, or you can look at the other platform. And yes, I'm kinda biased on that particular topic. :) If you care, I'll answer in the DM's. But, my point is and has always been, if you want to do what the Studio artists do, look at Studio. If you're happy with what Poser can do for you, then stick with it and fuck the haters. I'm certainly not one of them.
No valium needed here, contedesfees. I have more than enough alcohol. :D
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees
Please don't imagine that I am suggesting that something is wrong with those who use Poser and stick to it because of their financial commitment. I intended no such thing. I merely wished to broadcast that the behaviour had caught the attention of economists and that they had derived a term to describe it. Admittedly, "fallacy" seems a pejorative term, which is unfortunate because nothing was further from my mind.
Carry on with whatever makes you happy! Everybody! Take a valium.
I get you Dude... was not offended in the least in fact I found it quite interesting..
MATT, Like you I bitched and hollered when DAZ gave up support for Poser. I did try V5 with the DSON package, thing was not all the vendors made products using DSON so My library still has a file with a V-5 and M5 bundles I got for like $200 , it was cumbersom
My gripe with P11 stems from the fact that I had some 50+ textures that would not work with superfly and they were great textures and only a few vendors were willing to do an upgrade with a superfly varienat,
I'm slowing down some.. hell cooking dinner for the missus and myself tonight wore me out, by the time I sat down to eat I was huffing and has a light sweat.. Next month I have to get back to the VA for my final cataract replacement scan Both eyes are great but see better out of the left than the right and I will finally get some scripts for driving, reading and computer glasses.
Then I can get in some more productivity.. My goal is to get five more comics poster hre for an even 100 and bring my comic total at the other place up to 50 if I reach that goal I will be pleased..
too pooped to type and pardon the typos, it's time to don my CPAP mask, and go to bed..
Nite everyone and Happy rendering
shado
Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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Originally Posted by: matt
Originally Posted by: contedesfees
Being reluctant to stop using Poser, feeling necessarily committed to it, because you've spent a good deal of money on the software and the assets is a syndrome with a name! Believe it or not, among behavioural economists it's known as "sunk-cost fallacy!" And apparently it manifests itself in other ways. Buying the upgrades even though the original software serves your needs perfectly well and you never even use the new features. Getting new shoes because, after all, you bought a new suit the week before. Staying at the conference, and the hotel, even after you've attended the only presentations that actually mattered to you.
I'm rather glad I came across the term. I'll try to keep it in mind in the future.
You and I discussed this quite extensively in the DM's, so I won't go over most of it, other than to reiterate that most assets for Poser work just fine in Studio, and converting them to Iray is a one click process. So...don't feel bad about all of the stuff that you've accumulated over the years, it's still workable. If you're concerned about the money that you spent on the software itself, ask yourself if you've gotten your 'money's worth' out of the time that you've spent with it, and if you're willing to keep paying for future upgrades. That was a big epiphany for me, I simply was not, considering what I knew Studio could do. Something to think about.
The biggest thing is...are you happy with the images that you can create in Poser? Does the content that you have allow you to put on the screen what you have in your head? If so, I wouldn't be in any rush to change platforms. You know my reasons, and I don't regret it, but we're all different.
Originally Posted by: Blir
Ha! There are lots of examples of the sunk cost fallacy in the real world, aka "throwing good money after bad."
For Poser and its legacy content that folks acquired, they may not be throwing good money after bad, but not willing to invest even more money in acquiring assets (characters, props, scenes, lighting, hair, clothes, etc) in a new platform (DAZ) and spending the time to become proficient in that new platform when their existing Poser collection and skill set is good enough for what they produce. In other words, "starting over." Are the renders using DAZ and the latest 8.75x Genesis character that much better that it justifies tossing Poser and all of one's acquired content?
The primary reason that I switched platforms and put in the time to learn Studio was grafts. Having the genitalia, which I add to nearly every custom character that I create at some point, be a literal part of the mesh was very intriguing to me, and I liked the look of the images that I was seeing being created with this tech. Here was my workflow with Poser, and Lali's Bits or HiroGens, the last ones that I messed with before I switched.
Step One: Load V4 or M4. Inject all of the morph packs into the figure (I sidestepped this by saving a version to the Library with all of the packs loaded, but it took me a while to figure that out). Time? At least 15 minutes. Some of those packs made me go grab a beer and take a leak.
Step Two: Apply the prop. Position it to the static pose. with HiroGens, this took some fucking time, as I had to use all of the morphs for the pelvis of the prop to get the distance just right, so that I wouldn't get weird artifacts in the render. Once in place, after looking at it from multiple angles, I'd parent it to the hip. Time: 30 to 40 minutes for HiroGens, not too long for Lali Bits, but the fun with that was about to come.
Step Three: Morph the character to what I had I had in mind. I still do this in DAZ, but it doesn't create all of the issues that I'll describe in the following steps, so the time that this could take is not included in my final tally.
Step Four: Pose the character. Well, fuck. Reposition the gen prop. Will it follow? Will it look OK from the angle that I plan to render? Maybe, maybe not. I'd find out. I'd discarded entire scene files after hours of work because I couldn't make it look natural. Time: Who even knows. It depended on the character's shape and how far I'd deviated from the base mesh shape. Sometimes I could do it in a few minutes, sometimes it would take hours, if I could do it at all.
Step Five, assuming I got to this point: Add lights and scenery, and render. Time: Irrelevant, as it takes me just as long to do this in DAZ.
Overall, this process would take me at least one evening, sometimes longer. That's not to say that I don't spend days creating a scene in DAZ, but the problems and adjusting that I had to do with Poser are simply not there, or are only minor tangents that take me minutes at most.
Now, my process with Studio:
Step one: Load G8. Load all of the Mor...never mind, they all load with the figure. Time: Maybe a minute?
Step Two: Add the genital graft. Positio...never mind, it's part of the mesh. Time: 30 seconds. NOTE: I will absolutely spend time on making the genitals unique to the character. I don't like cookie cutter dicks and pussies, and something that irritates the hell out of me is a very good render with an unmorphed Golden Palace with the default textures between the girl's legs. Just...no. It's a starting point. Real life pussies don't look like that. Put in the effort!
Step Three: Morph the character. I can do this in minutes, or I can take hours. This is part of my creative process. I like my characters to be MINE, not a cookie cutter that I bought from one of the stores. I'll use all or most of a morph, or just a little bit because I like what it does to the eyes or something. Time: Meh. It's the creative process, not problem solving.
Step Four: Pose the character. Move the gens...never mind. It's part of the mesh and still where it should be, looking like it should. Time: Depends on how long it takes me to tweak the pose to deal with intersections and unique shapes, but maybe 15 minutes?
Step five: Add lights and scenery, then render. The time that I saved by NOT having to move shit around every time the figure was moved was what sold me on Studio. Other little nuggets like autofit for clothing and hair were just icing on the cake. Yeah, this was long winded, but I'm making a point. Bondware has an uphill battle bringing Poser to Studio's level of ease of use in character creation. I can save an entire character with clothing and genitalia as a loadable figure. I tried that with Poser and lost months of work when I realized that loading multiple figures that were saved as a figure group caused massive crosstalk issues, something that doesn't even exist in Studio. I had to go back and redo every single one of them, sometimes without success.
Originally Posted by: Blir
I bought my first smart phone yesterday and traded in my ancient flip phone. My monthly bill will now be around $160 vs $60. Will that change be worth it, or will I just use my smart phone to make mostly voice calls for which my Kyocera flip phone did just fine?
Without wanting to derail the conversation, I'd just like to tell you that you WILL use the new features available to you. My iPhone and Apple Watch are indispensable. Find some apps that will be useful to you, like banking. If you text at all, you'll find it is much easier and faster now. I firmly believe that within a few months time, you won't regret it. I've been using a smartphone for over a decade, and it's become an integral part of me.
matt. I can't imagine why I thought I touched a nerve. Live long and render
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Originally Posted by: shadoman
MATT, Like you I bitched and hollered when DAZ gave up support for Poser. I did try V5 with the DSON package, thing was not all the vendors made products using DSON so My library still has a file with a V-5 and M5 bundles I got for like $200 , it was cumbersom
Oh, I tried DSON, too. It took me less than a week to say 'to HELL with this shit'. And...it went downhill from there. Gen4 content started drying up, but I persevered! I can't remember exactly when G5 debuted, but it would have been several years later that I finally joined the dark side. For my art, for what I envisioned to create, I just had to. As I've discussed with contedesfees, it took me some time. I tried to use Studio like Poser, and it laughed and spit on me. But, once I figured out how it was different and unique, there was that epiphany moment. From there, it was just more of that, and for me, it suits what I want to do.
I look forward to more from you in the galleries and forums.
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees
matt. I can't imagine why I thought I touched a nerve.
LOL! Not at all! My nerves are numb. I talk to intolerant assholes all day. You could hit me with a cattleprod and I'd be like 'Wut'?
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees
Being reluctant to stop using Poser, feeling necessarily committed to it, because you've spent a good deal of money on the software and the assets is a syndrome with a name! Believe it or not, among behavioural economists it's known as "sunk-cost fallacy!" And apparently it manifests itself in other ways. Buying the upgrades even though the original software serves your needs perfectly well and you never even use the new features. Getting new shoes because, after all, you bought a new suit the week before. Staying at the conference, and the hotel, even after you've attended the only presentations that actually mattered to you.
I'm rather glad I came across the term. I'll try to keep it in mind in the future.
I don't consider using Poser to be a Sunk-Cost fallacy - that's when you keep doing something but expect different results. In short insanity from gamblers losing the kid's milk money to governments spending 20x initial estimate on bombers that won't be used unless its ww3 already or tax breaks to billionaires when trickle down clearly is false. I get consistent results for effort with Poser and DAZ is usually a waste of time before a major computer crash. Twice I think over the last decade. So I can do stuff I know with Poser but otherwise I'm spending time, freeing up resources and unsure if I'll be satisfied.
Poser vs Daz is more of a time sink/resources vs reward issue.
Of note - I'd LOVE to use some things like trans horse cocks over female cunts, cow girl breasts, that new Dickson Dick thing... And a few outfits. 90% of the Daz stuff here I'd not buy if it worked for Poser. Not going into it and nothing specific, I wish them well.
However trying Daz is a huge chunk out of a nearly full HDD - was unable to get a bigger HDD when I got my current computer a few years back. I'd have to remove a lot and I have a lot of good programs and things I want on my main drive though I've backed everything up at least twice on seperate and offline external.
The real sink is time -
A - learning Daz's ins and outs
B - getting Poser things to work with it due to high investment and usage - I can get figures but the morphs don't work last time I tried.
C - re-learning the import and use curve for objects and figures again. I did not spend thousands on a Maya use degree, which if I understand the Poser (and leech imitator DAZ) is derivative of in 3DCG technology... It's easy for that crowd, but not for 'outsiders'.
Right now Poser still works for my needs as I rely on postwork regardless. A few minutes with Affinity I've done the "Grindhouse" or "Corman style B-Movie" output I'm seeking. Vs 10x passes with long LONG renders. My goal isn't 100% realistic. That's why the "NeoGrindhouse" movie attempts tend to fall on their faces - they use high density cameras and don't edit it right when they need to zoom, filter, pan like an artist working on a comic book. With a pipeline of Z-brush to Poser to postwork I can do 90% what I could do if I had unlimited money and it was the 80s range with top Penthouse models, Roger Corman and later Japanese Rubber tentacles - and no fear of an "X" rating making it near impossible to distribute due to the Internet.
WHEN I finish V2 of my comic and some illustrations for novels and get a new computer (hopefully next year) I might install DAZ and sink some time if I can find a good Poser figure / morph use pipeline. But long term sink I might use Blender since with Zbrush and some conversions I'd have a lot more freedom.
My reliance on Poser came from learning 3D through a now defunct program - "TrueSpace" that wasn't .obj native and not touching the very expensive alternatives - Maya for instance. Poser came free on those computer magazines in Hastings. Worked good but had trouble making props that worked though thanks to Zbrush and a LOT of experimentation was able to figure it out. The forums were NO help there.
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Originally Posted by: Blir Are the renders using DAZ and the latest 8.75x Genesis character that much better that it justifies tossing Poser and all of one's acquired content?
Short answer, yes. Just open the DAZ galleries and it’s full of beautiful, inspiring artwork, then open "R's" Poser galleries, and everything looks like 20 years old. Good artwork can be made with Poser, but it seems to require a level of effort and commitment very few are still willing to maintain today. I can’t do the work I do today with the tools I had 10 years ago.
But, it also depends. Technology keeps evolving but if someone is satisfied with Poser, then that’s all good too. Someone could say he is happy with Playstation 2 and his games investment.
Besides, almost everything works in DAZ Studio, so there is no reason to toss anything away. I could use up to Generation 3 stuff if I wanted to. The content reason is not that strong.
Originally Posted by: matt However, and this is all conjecture, I wonder if Smith Micro had a hand in that? I'm sure that Daz had been spending some time on tech like grafts, the main reason that I switched, and SM said that they weren't interested in spending the development money and time on integrating them into Poser? Again, conjecture, just armchair quarterbacking on my part, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once. Did Daz approach SM with the idea of implementing grafts into Poser? I seriously doubt we'll ever know, but we all know how it ended up.
Yes, this was posted publicly by Smith Micro themselves back then. DAZ approached Smith Micro to implement the Genesis technology into Poser, and SM was not interested. Then DAZ only options were to throw everything away and keep with Generation 4 forever OR move on their own. They even tried to support Poser with DSON Importer as a workaround.
DAZ is its own company and has its own software and users to take care of, while Smith Micro never moved from DAZ’s Generation 4 and just sold the scraps to "R" when things sunk. To my eyes, it was Smith Micro who failed Poser users.
This is Genesis itself, Geografts came later, but by the time it was clear Poser was not a market anymore and it wasn´t worth approaching SM.
In any case, this is ancient history, the important thing is to use whatever tool works for you.  DAZ STUDIO USER SINCE 2006
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in retros[ect and seeing what transpired with SM.. I can see their being pigheaded to interact with daz.
When R bought the rights and before even trying to sell a new modified version of Poser, (P12) they should have found some way to create a all new base figure than just keep La Femme. If I was just doing a vanila comic where she was always dressed and doing something other than nude porn I could have adapted her base form using P-11 But now some features seem to only be supported bt P12 and I will not touch it. If Pro 2014 fails me over the next few years I can adapt and use the current version pf P11 that I do own.
For me I just set up scenes put my characters in, pose them and add expressions. and lighting ( my biggest enemy at times) and then Render. Sometimes it may result in a redo, but if I am happy I go to post work and fix any flaws that might pop up and add some extra contrast and then send it to the comic software which by the way Comic life has an awesome sharpness tool that has brought my more recent comics over the last 4 years some crispness that my viewers have commented on and like.
I have noted that new props for posers are forcing me to turn back to my older Poser PC as it has a better video card, and i7 processor instead of i5 and twice the Ram to get my renders finished.
for Blirr
I had a moto-razr flip phone that I loved , but the VA started a new thing where I needed to confirm appointments via text and just could not do that with a basic flip phone. So I got a Samsung A10e ( highly rated for Seniors) and basically I just use it for Text and calls. I have a pay as you go plan that they allow me to keep (for now) so I pay just $10 a year to renew and carry over minutes I will never use . If they ever drop that I will be forced to get the min monthly program of $15 a month.
I miss my old Flip phone as it was so easy to carry around Now my phone is in a heavy duty case to protect it and I wear it on my hip thanks to the belt clip but I have a very love-hate relationship with it
Stay well and safe everyone.. That delta varient of Covid is reaping souls
Shado
Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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Originally Posted by: shadoman
I had a moto-razr flip phone that I loved , but the VA started a new thing where I needed to confirm appointments via text and just could not do that with a basic flip phone. ...
I miss my old Flip phone as it was so easy to carry around Now my phone is in a heavy duty case to protect it and I wear it on my hip thanks to the belt clip but I have a very love-hate relationship with it
Shado
I get that. These days the only places I go seem to be the doctor. A small stroke, rheumatoid arthritis, osteo arthritis, peripheral neuropathy, vasculitis, physical therapy, and TMB (too many birthdays) mean that I'm working my way through every specialist in the state. My 2nd knee replacement is scheduled for the end of August, yesterday was a cortozone shot in the hip, today is the dentist.
I realized I'm really old, 'cause all I talk about is medical conditions. Sigh.
One of the rationalizations for getting a smartphone was that is allows me to listen to Audible books while cooling my heels in the waiting rooms or driving to and from appointments without lugging my tablet around.
The smartphone holster on the hip is not attractive to me, but I guess in the world in which we live it's more or less become a fashion statement.
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I do not regret the money I spent for Poser. It let me do the things I liked, and so that's justified. I quit Poser when it no longer was able to get the results I aspired, and now my money goes elsewhere. I save now the money for software updates, but the costs of content wasn't wasted, because 80% of the old stuff is still usable. I'm fine. :) Creating SFW and NSFW 3D images. Guaranteed natural and AI-free.
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Originally Posted by: Sutut
I don't consider using Poser to be a Sunk-Cost fallacy - that's when you keep doing something but expect different results.
Please! I didn't say using Poser is a sunk-cost fallacy. I said: "Being reluctant to stop using Poser, feeling necessarily committed to it, because you've spent a good deal of money on the software and the assets is a syndrome with a name!" Sunk-cost fallacy refers to the motive, not the activity itself.
Originally Posted by: Hellboy
Originally Posted by: Blir Are the renders using DAZ and the latest 8.75x Genesis character that much better that it justifies tossing Poser and all of one's acquired content?
Short answer, yes. Just open the DAZ galleries and it’s full of beautiful, inspiring artwork, then open "R's" Poser galleries, and everything looks like 20 years old. Good artwork can be made with Poser, but it seems to require a level of effort and commitment very few are still willing to maintain today.
You're absolutely right on all points. DAZ Studio is challenging, but Iray is a winner. And, yeah, truly masterful renders in Poser require a daunting measure of technical expertise. Devote that time to DAZ Studio and the game's on ice.
Originally Posted by: Ehliasys I do not regret the money I spent for Poser.
How I wish I could say the same! I suppose that's why the notion of "sunk-cost fallacy" struck such a chord with me. I know I can get much of it working in DAZ Studio but it still reminds me of the first girl who dumped me so many, many years ago. I spent months wondering what I did wrong, only to learn that it was just another guy with a bigger bankroll. Sniff!
Live long and render
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Originally Posted by: Blir
Originally Posted by: shadoman
I had a moto-razr flip phone that I loved , but the VA started a new thing where I needed to confirm appointments via text and just could not do that with a basic flip phone. ...
I miss my old Flip phone as it was so easy to carry around Now my phone is in a heavy duty case to protect it and I wear it on my hip thanks to the belt clip but I have a very love-hate relationship with it
Shado
I get that. These days the only places I go seem to be the doctor. A small stroke, rheumatoid arthritis, osteo arthritis, peripheral neuropathy, vasculitis, physical therapy, and TMB (too many birthdays) mean that I'm working my way through every specialist in the state. My 2nd knee replacement is scheduled for the end of August, yesterday was a cortozone shot in the hip, today is the dentist.
I realized I'm really old, 'cause all I talk about is medical conditions. Sigh.
One of the rationalizations for getting a smartphone was that is allows me to listen to Audible books while cooling my heels in the waiting rooms or driving to and from appointments without lugging my tablet around.
The smartphone holster on the hip is not attractive to me, but I guess in the world in which we live it's more or less become a fashion statement.
Blirr
I can relate to medical facilities being my second home.
Two cataract surgeries, Chemical stress test, Breathing test, CT and VQ scans and then there are the follow up visits Then the fucking CPAP machine I use had a flaw in the noise dampening unit that could have allowed me to breath in possible cancerous fibers and I had to get a new one ... My 4th ... Getting old is for the shits... wish I could get new Knee caps, but I am too heavy. and all this during a Covid Pandemic. At least I got my shots
for now this has been all free as Congress passed a bill forgiving Veteran costs Via the VA Health care system from April 2020 till this years Fiscal end of September 2021. that and the Stim checks... Thank you Uncle Sam
So using poser to render images for my stories is the one thing I can do to eliminate stress... I have invested a lot of money but my comics help pay for the costs.. In fact I used my Premier Points to buy something from DAVO this month..
Life goes on and for now. so do I.... sigh... Nap time ...
Be safe everyone and remember when one is retired, every day is a holiday
Shado Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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Originally Posted by: contedesfees
Originally Posted by: Sutut
Originally Posted by: Hellboy
Originally Posted by: Blir Are the renders using DAZ and the latest 8.75x Genesis character that much better that it justifies tossing Poser and all of one's acquired content?
Short answer, yes. Just open the DAZ galleries and it’s full of beautiful, inspiring artwork, then open "R's" Poser galleries, and everything looks like 20 years old. Good artwork can be made with Poser, but it seems to require a level of effort and commitment very few are still willing to maintain today.
You're absolutely right on all points. DAZ Studio is challenging, but Iray is a winner. And, yeah, truly masterful renders in Poser require a daunting measure of technical expertise. Devote that time to DAZ Studio and the game's on ice.
The "market" may disagree with the notion that Iray/DAZ is the clear winner. Go to the Galleries page, click on Artists in the upper left corner and scroll through the first couple pages of artists. Look at the ones garnering the highest number of views/likes/posts, and I suspect that many/most in that top tier are using Poser not DAZ. Their work in Poser is not exactly a dumpster fire compared to DAZ <grin>. That said, most of the sales and new products are on this site and others are of DAZ products, meaning that the market for new stuff is clearly DAZ, not Poser.
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Blirr
Vendors go where the money is and that is DAZ. Cannot blame them, they have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and most likely rent or a mortgage.
As to the galleries I beg to differ, many of the stuff there is clearly daz , but I also see Poser work and some of it quite good while other images are raw as the artist skate by with poor posing,
I am concerned for both formats as I see lack of expression, poor posing and poor lighting, These are our newb who get the software and quickly want to push something out there. Some will improve and other will not
A great many of us have gone through that process. In fact recently I cleared my gallery of some 1500 images as I was not longer pleased with what I saw..
regards Shado Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
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