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NutSpectrum  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2019 11:09:22 PM(UTC)
NutSpectrum

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I've been using Dicktator for G3 and G8 for a long time now, and they're great. However the one thing that has disappointed me is the foreskin. While it looks fine when in its default "pulled-back" state (the extra wrinkle morphs are particularly cool), when the "Foreskin Forward" morph is applied it unfortunately brings up a few problems.


  1. Some of the pre-existing shaft length, scale, and posing dials (including "Scale Down Shaft" and "Cock Length") cause either the foreskin to warp or the glans to poke through.
  2. Dicktator is a low-poly model that relies on displacement maps for added detail. This works great for veins and the like, but this also means the foreskin is weirdly smooth compared to the rest of the model.
  3. Furthermore, the low-poly nature of the gens means that the foreskin has even fewer polygons to morph when pulled forwards, making it difficult to adjust the shape without causing further glitches.
  4. Texture stretching, which isn't unique to Dicktator (the old M4 gens had issues with this too), but it's especially pronounced when using G3/G8 textures that already struggle with texture stretching.

As someone who likes to render uncircumcised guys, this has been very frustrating to me. However, I do think such problems could be solved in an addon!


You see, back in the pre-Genesis and early-Genesis days, my favourite gens model to use was Adzan's HiroGens (which is a freebie gens). It was a circumcised penis with an optional conforming foreskin. The foreskin covered the head by default and could be retracted using morphs. The foreskin itself was also pretty high poly and had a simple shape, making it easier to customise (it's a lot easier to add detail than to take it away), and had its own UV map with unique textures. The big downside of course was that, as a conforming item, sometimes you could see a visible shadow halfway down the shaft where the models didn't perfectly align.


But things are different now, namely with geografting! Now, I don't know for sure if it's possible to add a geograft onto a geograft. But if it is possible, all this could be solved with the creation of a new geografted foreskin for Dicktator:


  1. It could have a high density mesh for detailed morphs, including different shapes, different lengths, and different wrinkles.
    • One idea would be having a Prince Albert piercing, and having the foreskin accurately cover said piercing when pulled forwards.
  2. Just like Adzan's HiroGens, the base-shape could have the foreskin pulled forward by default. This would make it much easier to adjust the foreskin to the shape of the glans (as well as any shaft morphs that would previously cause pokethrough). These adjustments could then dialed away when pulling back the foreskin by using some sort of ERC trickery.
  3. It could have the same UV maps as the original Dicktator for compatibilities sake, as well as alternate UVs that reduce texture stretching when the foreskin is pulled forward.
    • You could even include additional UV maps to take advantage of the seperate uncircumcised textures included with most G3M and G8M characters.
    • These textures would get squished when the foreskin is retracted, though in my opinion squished textures aren't as noticeable as stretched textures.
  4. You could also include new displacement/normal maps for additional foreskin details, though they would probably have to be LIE presets to avoid conflict with the existing shaft displacement.

I would happily pay for an addon that did something like this (if such a thing is possible).


Anyways, that's all the ideas I really have for now. Thank you for reading.


thanks 3 users thanked NutSpectrum for this useful post.
matt on 11/27/2019(UTC), Meipe on 11/27/2019(UTC), Cryphius3DX on 4/25/2020(UTC)
matt  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:04:21 AM(UTC)
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Quite an intriguing idea...and something I was just thinking about earlier while messing around with Studio. Meipe, if this is possible, I'll buy it, too.


stger2  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 1:48:01 AM(UTC)
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+1 for a better foreskin
Meipe  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 5:14:44 AM(UTC)
Meipe

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Indeed it is possible to add a graft on a graft... and it's true that for realism the foreskin would require a much better geometry. It would be challenging for sculpting al the folds...

Ok, I'll put the foreskin graft project high on my priority list! :)
thanks 4 users thanked Meipe for this useful post.
matt on 11/27/2019(UTC), NutSpectrum on 11/27/2019(UTC), EvilSteve on 11/27/2019(UTC), banditcameraman on 11/27/2019(UTC)
NutSpectrum  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 2:51:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Meipe Go to Quoted Post
Indeed it is possible to add a graft on a graft... and it's true that for realism the foreskin would require a much better geometry. It would be challenging for sculpting al the folds...

Ok, I'll put the foreskin graft project high on my priority list! :)


Awesome! :D


stger2  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 4:31:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Meipe Go to Quoted Post
Indeed it is possible to add a graft on a graft... and it's true that for realism the foreskin would require a much better geometry. It would be challenging for sculpting al the folds...

Ok, I'll put the foreskin graft project high on my priority list! :)


 


hopefully not before an updated androgyny... btw I would like to use an improved foreskin also with androgyn ðŸ˜‰


Meipe  
#7 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2019 5:26:56 AM(UTC)
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thanks 1 user thanked Meipe for this useful post.
Cryphius3DX on 4/25/2020(UTC)
stger2  
#8 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2019 3:51:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Meipe Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: stger2 Go to Quoted Post


hopefully not before an updated androgyny...



I will work on that in the next weeks!



 


good to hear... so will we get seperate morphs for the scrotum and the penis?


NutSpectrum  
#9 Posted : Saturday, December 7, 2019 8:22:02 PM(UTC)
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So I recently tried to make my own foreskin displacement map for Dicktator (using the G8M uv map, as I tend to use that one a lot). Unfortunately when it came to baking the displacement map most of the details got lost due to those polygons occupying a very small amount of space on the UV map (it also looks very glitchy in iray, but that could be my fault, i'm not sure). This is what I mean when I say that both a higher density mesh and alternate UV maps could really help to improve details like this.


 

Edited by user Saturday, December 7, 2019 8:27:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NutSpectrum attached the following image(s):
DicktatorForeskinSculpt.jpg
DicktatorForeskinTexture.jpg
DicktatorForeskinDisplacementIray.jpg
thanks 1 user thanked NutSpectrum for this useful post.
Cryphius3DX on 2/2/2020(UTC)
Zaavaleta  
#10 Posted : Sunday, December 8, 2019 6:24:18 AM(UTC)
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@ntngear did you also increase SubD Displacement Level in the surface settings? Doing that and using a larger texture map you should be able to increase resolution as much as your system RAM will allow. Just keep in mind that for every SubD level you go up, the polygons quadruple.


NutSpectrum  
#11 Posted : Sunday, December 8, 2019 1:41:06 PM(UTC)
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Yes I am using SubD Displacement. I think it was somewhere between 4 and 6 when I did that render. Also the texture is already 4096x4096, any larger and it would get a bit unwieldy. :P


Meipe  
#12 Posted : Monday, December 9, 2019 8:57:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ntngear Go to Quoted Post


Also the texture is already 4096x4096, any larger and it would get a bit unwieldy. :P



 


Yes, a foreskin with a dedicated UV map would only need a 1k/2k texture...


About separate morphs for scrotum and penis for Androgyny: I'll try! ;)


RobinsonUK  
#13 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2019 7:52:24 PM(UTC)
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I was wondering if it's possible to make morphs that pull the shaft skin back as well. You know, from different start positions as if gripped. That would greatly add to realism in animations. It would stretch at one point and then kind-of crease slightly further back. I imagine there's quite an effort involved in doing that.
Meipe  
#14 Posted : Thursday, December 26, 2019 3:33:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RobinsonUK Go to Quoted Post
I was wondering if it's possible to make morphs that pull the shaft skin back as well. You know, from different start positions as if gripped. That would greatly add to realism in animations. It would stretch at one point and then kind-of crease slightly further back. I imagine there's quite an effort involved in doing that.


The difficulty is with veins: in real world, skin would go back, but veins would stay put... Maybe animating the diffuse texture?


NutSpectrum  
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:32:12 PM(UTC)
NutSpectrum

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So I just realised it might be helpful to include some references for different foreskin shapes and the like, like others have done with other features (like the puffy vagina/anus morphs).

These are all illustrations with more exaggerated/toony depictions of foreskin. Good exaggerated morphs can easily be toned down to look more realistic.

https://twitter.com/Anim...atus/1246591663717392391
https://twitter.com/Anim...atus/1133883152752156673
https://twitter.com/Anim...atus/1113978833835786241
https://twitter.com/Mist...atus/1246454072594649088
https://twitter.com/brut...atus/1246878045987880960
https://twitter.com/Spel...tatus/849302130414563328
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