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Floor13  
#1 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 9:38:02 AM(UTC)
Floor13

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Hi All,


I've not rendered in about a year, other than to make a few storyboards for custom movies.


Each time I fire up Poser, I get more and more annoyed with it.


 


Once again, I'm thinking of moving to Daz and the G8 range.
 


For those of you that made the switch, how difficult was it?


I did the DAZ tutorials about 6 or 7 years ago, just wondering if it is all a lot smoother now?


I found their library system, and all the menus on the left-side of the screen to be a bit confusing compared to Poser's simple systems.


 


Is DAZ any good for animation these days?


 


I have bought a LOT of content over the years. Some of it is Poser and DAZ compatible, others just Poser. All of Davo's stuff for example, I have Poser only...


 


The thought of buying it all again...


 


 


Also, is there a good way to transfer skin mats from V4 to V8? I've put a LOT of work into skins and making them realistic, and adding displaced-vagina and anus so I can make them look real without the need of 3rd party (I accept there are good 3rd party vaginas for G8).


 


Any info greatly appreciated.


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matt  
#2 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 11:31:40 AM(UTC)
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I'll try to keep this as short and to the point as possible, I can tend to ramble.


I started using Poser back in '00, with version 4. I used Poser all the way to '16, and had version PP12, if I recall correctly. I too was hesitant to switch software, since I'm at the age where learning new stuff requires more patience than I tend to have, but that's a rant for another day. I've been using Studio since then, and I don't regret it.


The learning curve isn't 'that' bad, since a lot of it works the same. The two areas that required the most patience from me were the Surfaces tab, which is the equivalent to Poser's Materials Room, and lighting. Studio handles those things somewhat differently. I'd recommend taking a look at the many very good tutorials on YouTube that discuss things like LIE presets and the lighting system. SickleYield has some very good ones, and I subscribe to her channel just to see what else she has going on because there's always something new to learn. But, lighting and texturing are the two things that I found to be my biggest stumbling blocks when I made the move.


I can't really answer your question about animation, I only use the animation timeline for dForce simulations. I never animated with Poser, either, so maybe someone else can answer that for you.


I've never tried to use V4 skins, either, but I seem to recall someone making a UV transfer utility, so it may be possible. Keep in mind that you'll want to convert them to IRay, though, unless you plan on using the 3Delight engine. Speaking of rendering, if you plan on using the IRay engine, you'll want to get the very best NVIDIA GeForce card that you can afford, if you're not already running one. I use a GTX1080, and it's pretty efficient at kicking out a decent render in a reasonable amount of time.


I was also not looking forward to buying a lot of new stuff, either, even though I spend way too much of my disposable income on content. The nice thing is, if you tie Studio to your Poser Runtime, you can still  use a lot of your old content. You'll want to convert the shaders to Daz Uber, but that's not hard to do. Most items, especially props and environments, work just fine in Studio, and once you've converted them, you can save them to your Studio Content pane so that you don't have to do it again.


My main reason for the changeover was simple: V4/M4 were dated. Poser was languishing while Studio was pushing new tech, like geografts. I kept seeing all this great looking stuff for G3 in the stores(G8 wasn't out yet), and it frustrated me that I couldn't use any of it. Yes, I've spent a ton of cash on G3/G8 content, but I'd have been spending money on V4/M4 content if it was still coming out like it had been in their heyday, so that's not really a hindrance to me. I do not regret changing over to Studio, and I haven't fired up Poser in almost three years now.


Overall, the changeover wasn't that difficult, and once you figure out what the differences are, it's a pretty simple program to use.


Chaosophia  
#3 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 1:44:35 PM(UTC)
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I went from Daz to Poser initially but had to convert back to make sales. Initially it can be annoying, but the payoff is there. Once you get the hang of the folder structure in the library and where to find your stuff it gets easier. The folder structure can be a pain in the ass though while creating content for Daz. Older structures don't work as well. But they are kinda similar. it takes so tweaking to get it the way that is best for you. When 4 came out I could not stand the UI, but it does get easier to use once you emerge into it. G8 tends to be more load heavy, so older systems it is a bane. If you have decent to great end graphics card it works better. 


 


EvilSteve  
#4 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 5:06:21 PM(UTC)
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With regard to using old Poser content in DAZ Iray, there are (at least) two must-have products by Vyktohria over on Renderosity: "Convert It!" and "Convert It! Vol 2 - Props and Architecture." These are a collection of shader settings that will convert old Poser materials to Iray shaders, while keeping the existing texture maps. And if you're a Prime member, both of these products show up in the Prime Flash Sales pretty regularly. â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹


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banditcameraman on 12/30/2019(UTC)
bikdingle  
#5 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 6:05:49 PM(UTC)
bikdingle

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Originally Posted by: Floor13 Go to Quoted Post

For those of you that made the switch, how difficult was it?


 


After 4 years of Poser 10 I switched to Studio back in August.


I knew what I wanted to do but not how to do it...what buttons to use for what.


It took me about a week to understand how it was all connected and was posting renders shortly after.


 


Iray blew me away with how good the renders turned out. However, my old computer with 6gb of ram would take an hour per render (Poser 10 rarely took that long) so when I had spare money I upgraded to a machine with a NVIDIA GPU.  Now render time is often minutes (lighting and textures can change this)


 


 


Originally Posted by: Floor13 Go to Quoted Post


I found their library system, and all the menus on the left-side of the screen to be a bit confusing compared to Poser's simple systems.



 


The layout took some time to get used to and when I installed Studio on my new machine the layout changed again. 


The biggest problem with tutorials for Studio is that they are often a few releases behind the current release and the newer releases always seem to change the layout.  So finding stuff can take a bit of work. 


 


Quote:


Is DAZ any good for animation these days?



 


No idea on this one as I only do stills...but I've seen some pretty good animations produced with Daz


 


Quote:


I have bought a LOT of content over the years. Some of it is Poser and DAZ compatible, others just Poser. All of Davo's stuff for example, I have Poser only...


The thought of buying it all again...


Studio will load Poser formatted assets. 


Some assets (Flink's Winter trees for instance) don't need to be touched.  


Othes just need the textures tweaked 


 


V4 clothing and Hair can be converted by a script sold at Daz by Sickleyield (type RSSY into the search engine at Daz to find all the conversion scripts)


Converting M4 clothing is possible but not M4 characters.


Converting V4 character is rougher and some don't convert well  


 


Quote:


Also, is there a good way to transfer skin mats from V4 to V8? I've put a LOT of work into skins and making them realistic, and adding displaced-vagina and anus so I can make them look real without the need of 3rd party (I accept there are good 3rd party vaginas for G8).



 


I picked up Blacksmith3d's Texture Transformer (at Renderosity) and found the results mixed.  Some skins (Tempesta3d) covert very well, others do not.  In general I just use an existing G8F skin on converted characters.


 


Hope this helps


 


ProtocolZero  
#6 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 7:43:01 PM(UTC)
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I started out with Poser 6 and 7, and switched to DS3A after Poser 8 came out, 'cause I couldn't stand the look or feel of Poser 8. I've tried to relearn Poser several times over the years (and in fact, I've bought every pro version up 'til now, excluding the new Renderosity edition), but using Poser now feels about as awkward as I would imagine going about your day while wearing boxing gloves would feel. (Imagine trying to tie your shoelaces, zip up your fly, use a pen or a cellphone, etc. Sure, you COULD do it, but it would take far more time and effort, and be a total PITA in the process.) Both programs do essentially the same thing (more or less), and it's the INTERFACE that gets me. IMO, DS has the modern, cleaner, more organized, easier-to-use UI, while each version of Poser simply slaps another layer of polish on top of its UI without ever really improving it.

On the other hand, FireFly handles some materials and lighting effects in ways I wish I could do in DS, and I would love to have a plug-in version of it to use in DS, but that obviously hasn't happened. I have also asked for something similar to Poser's Morph tool to be implemented in DS, and that hasn't happened, either.

However, DS is finally implementing its own dynamics with dForce. My understanding is that they had to wait for the contract with OptiTex to expire before they could implement something else, and that time has finally arrived.

I don't do animations, so I can't say anything about DS's capabilities there, sorry...

Also, not trying to antagonize anyone, but it's no mystery to me why the DAZ figures are dominant. Disregarding the tech they're built on and the limitations they're working under, the DAZ figures simply kick the Poser figures asses. It's no contest. They look good right out of the box, and they look even better with some 3rd party add-ons, of which there are tons to choose from. On the other hand, La Femme (the new Poser flagship figure) has been out for how many months now, and people are STILL asking for working gens for her? The Poser people always had the potential to look good, but the support simply isn't there. (And -- IMO -- the final results are usually nowhere near as good-looking as they are for the DAZ figures, either.)

I have bought several products from several different vendors to convert one generation of DAZ figures to another, and I haven't really been impressed with any of them, so I can't really recommend anything. It's simply easier for me to rebuild a character from scratch rather than try to port one over. (Funner, too.) I would be happier if DAZ simply made each generation more compatible with the previous one(s), but I can also see the issues with doing that, which is why they probably don't.

The situation has changed with Renderosity acquiring Poser, tho'. Poser is now THE focus, rather than simply one product amongst many competing for resources (time, money, programmers, content creators, etc.), as it was when Smith Micro owned it. Who knows what the future will bring.

DS will install and run without an internet connection, unlike Poser. (For now, anyways.)

Lastly, the crew running DAZ these days are the ones who pulled that nasty little stunt a couple of years ago with the content encryption, and it took almost a year of sales going over a cliff to get them to back off. (I assume: they've never addressed it publicly AFAIK, but I can't see anything else that would make them reverse course.) If they're stupid enough to pull a stunt like that despite the backlash they received BEFORE they actually did it, I can only assume that they're stupid enough to do something similar in the future.

Some of the more useful YouTube channels:

DAZ 3D (https://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM/videos)


Black Sun Comics (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8YOdIhSc1IKrrJV5K7ccQ/videos)

JGreenlees (https://www.youtube.com/user/JGreenlees7243/videos)

Josh Darling (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtqhpxQyGa7fm0LPoDz4s4A/videos)

MYDART (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH1-ulEa5NhRvgYkfvgpsQw/videos)


Sickleyield (https://www.youtube.com/user/SickleYield/videos)

The WP Guru (https://www.youtube.com/user/wphosting/videos)

Thundorn Games (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3XOVUq1slkuM-JNh9OMD8g/videos)

VD GFX (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd1_8RzWkXO9XaoL1AqPe-Q/videos)

Xenic101 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRzELNMh86qwS20f1eP0IpA/videos)

Edited by user Monday, December 30, 2019 8:20:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Blir  
#7 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 8:36:44 PM(UTC)
Blir

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I've stuck with Poser because: (1) I'm too lazy to climb and keep up with the DAZ learning curve, I understand Poser; (2) I have too much invested in Poser content, and while I understand there are conversion utilities,such things, in my experience, ALWAYS have gliches, work-arounds and adjustments that I don't care to work through; (3) I don't want to board the treadmill of acquiring new characters everytime the folks in Utah need to make a boat payment; and, (4) Poser renders -- even using just Firefly and a dated Intel integrated graphics card -- are good enough for my amateur work and don't require updating my old laptop and buying a high-end graphics card. 


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bodo on 1/5/2020(UTC)
ssgbryan  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, December 31, 2019 12:35:14 AM(UTC)
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Having used Daz Studio - there isn't enough money in the world for me to make it my main piece of software. DS 4 is far and away the worst written piece of software I have dealt with since Windows 98. Whatever Daz paid the "programmers", it was too much.

Nearly 10 years on, there still isn't any functional documentation, so no, it isn't any smoother. It is a poorly designed, and poorly implemented piece of software. Every single UI function hangs off the main thread. If I didn't know better, I would say that it was originally written for MS-Dos 4.0 and Windows/286. (Damn, I am old....)

The idea of having to wait while a render cooks, unable to do anything else is, quite frankly, insulting in 2010, much less 2020. With DS, what I consider basic functionality (that is built into Poser), is a paid for 3rd party add-on. It isn't hard to drop well over $500 USD, just to start approaching Poser 9 functionality.

A number of the design decisions haven't aged well, for instance - if you have a lot of content, you will spend a SIGNIFICANT amount of time bringing order to the chaos that passes for folder structure. Every vendor assumes that their product (and only their product) is the only product in your library. Content is scattered everywhere, with very little thought behind it. I have over 500 products with Poser Companion Files - not one is in the correct subfolder - NOT ONE. That isn't incompetence, that is malicious.

The worst part is if you have a lot of figures - because DS creates the figure on the fly, every morph that the program sees is added to the character you are loaded - regardless of whether or not it is needed. Because of this, I have had to make (at last count) 25 separate libraries. I load and unload them as needed. If I don't, the program slows to a crawl.

My main goal with DS is getting content out of it and into Poser. There are a number of scripts (that are free) to get DS content working in Poser, and with that and the fitting room, I'm good.
terrancew_hod  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, December 31, 2019 5:37:01 AM(UTC)
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People the subject is for "people that went from poser to DAZ", NOT "I'm stuck with poser" or "I don't use DAZ, but I'm going to run it into the ground"


Ssybryan, this is why I have you on ignore everywhere else, I discount your off-topic, uninformed ramblings whereever I go so it's not necessary to see them.  So really everyone should ignore whatever he said as well. 


So let's stick to what the OP wants, or at least ask what the OP wants to do in Poser and see if you can help them get them to where they want to go. 


Now to the OP:


I began using poser about 10 years ago and used V4/M4 to create content for both DAZ and Poser. I made the switch to DS full time when Genesis was released because it could do something that the old tech couldn't do: Scale male characters to difference sizes because scaling characters and exporting objs of grouped figures was completely broken in Poser and stayed broken for several versions of Poser until about Poser 10. (Exporting objs of grouped figures is still broken btw)  I bought Poser up to version 10 so try to support figures being used with the DSON importer for Poser, but stopped using Poser completely with Genesis 3 when it was no longer supported by the importer in Poser. 


If you're coming from another program, yes it's going to take some getting used to because each program does things differently, but I do like things in DS4's interface like seeing all morphs activated on a figure, the ability to search for a morph or name of a morph, and the ability to drag and drop items into the scene when you press the alt key with the figure.


I have tons of Poser content as well and from time to time I dust them off and use them in renders. Iray has a uber shader that you can apply to a prop or clothing to make it more compatible and comes with several shaders to apply to convert the metal and glass, and the platinum club releases other shaders for $2.99. There are some other 3rd party utilities by Sickleyield/Riversoft that convert items, and Zev0 has several utilities for converting as well. There may be some end of year sales for some of these items so you can get a good discount on them. But there are utilities available for managing your scene, converting textures for use with the newer engines and optimizing textures particularly if you're using iray. The was a PA tool released a few weeks ago that works in a manner like the morph tool and I bought it,  but haven't had a chance to play around with it. 


The texture conversion tool at Rendo does a decent job of converting some M4/V4 textures to later figures, but keep in mind some of these old textures have a lot of specular in them so sometimes they end up looking like the figure has dirt on them in some of the newer render engines, but there's always a cheap figure somewhere or you can buy a merchant resource and play with putting together some textures using that.


I don't do animation either, but DAZ did some improvements with the tools including I believe IK. 


There isn't a complete tool that converts V4 morphs to G8, the tool that goes from V4 to G3 was made by Dimension3D but he passed away so the tool won't be updated. But there are two tools (one by zev0) that converts from G3 to G8, though you **could** do it manually but it's probably something a person new to the program should do, though there's a thread on the DAZ forums on how to do it. 


I would suggest start small and download the program and the free content that comes with it. You should get genesis figures from the first version to G8 in your downloads to play around with, along with a new user forum on DAZ to ask questions. Also if you have some content from DAZ, they may have shaders for 3delight that would still work and you play around with v4 and scenes with that to get around the interface. 

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Masterstroke on 12/31/2019(UTC), sumigo on 1/5/2020(UTC)
Masterstroke  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, December 31, 2019 7:23:41 AM(UTC)
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Switching from Poser to DAZ studio was my best 3d-art decision. I switched with the Genesis 3 figure release. At the same time Iray was introduced as a render option.
Those two options were my reasons to change. Figures are so much better in DS. Well they all carry a lot of JCMs with them to correct joints. Iray is a GPU supported PBR renderer. Its downside is, you'll need to get a real good NVIDIA card as a render beast.
The library system is actually quite handy, once you got used to it. The materials are usually in a sub folder of the linked item.
Lots of features are hidden behind the right mouse click.
In case, you'll make your own morph targets, the "Menu => Save as => Assets => Morph Assets" is essential for storing them.
Your created morph slider for e.g. G8 Females will be there any time you load a this figure.
IMPORTANT:
Do not store your content ("My Library")  folder in your "Daz Studio" program folder.
I use "Studio" for that. I have "Studio" and "DAZ Studio" in the "DAZ" folder.
Animation still seems to be a problem, but a good render takes at least 1 hour for me to go, would make 24 hours for 1 sec of an animation, so animation is out of the window anyway.
All summed up, I can only say, I completely recommend that transition.

Edited by user Tuesday, December 31, 2019 7:29:35 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Floor13  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 8:26:37 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for all your replies, I really appreciate the advice/insight.
I've just finished a set of renders on this (formaly) virgin PC after reinstalling Poser and copying my runtimes from the old computer.

I needed them done in a hurry for a film storyboard, so didn't have time to learn DAZ.

I'm still not sure what I plan to do. I know that I'm pretty much done with Poser (Trying to parent figures to a group object: Have to do them one at a time, and scroll through this tiny window of heirarchy, with no way to resize the tiny window and no way to close all the roots. Absolutly ludicrous. Then I want to play with some object heirachy, but you can resize that tiny window. Madness.).

But I don't know if I'm done with 3d rendering yet. I leave for a while, then I get the itch, I come back, and quickly realize "Oh yeah, this lightbulb magically stops right here and refuses to illuminate those bits right next to the edge. I'll turn up the cutoff by 2 cm, and oh look, now her face is suddenly white as the color is blown away. Why would the cutoff do that? I didn't change intensity...) etc etc etc, and I walk away once again.
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