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marble51  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 21, 2023 4:08:50 PM(UTC)
marble51

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Once again I ended up bewildered about how to manage multiple shells on G8F. I have the GP for G8F and also Headlights for her. Then I tried to add a Wet Skin Shell and ended up spending hours trying to get that to work.


The solution rests with applying IRay Uber Shader settings to Each Shell, copy/pasting surfaces and applying successive Mesh Offsets to each shell, with the wet skin shell being upper-most. However, I just could not find the Headlights shell. Eventually it dawned on me that I am not actually loading a separate shell for the Headlights because I use the MAT copy of the original character applied to Headlights. So I had to add the shell anyway and then remove the colour that is applied automatically to that shell by copying over the MAT setting from the character torso.


So my question is - where is the shell of the Headlights if the additional "Headlight Shell" is not added from the content folder? I mean, there must be a shell because I have to apply the Shell Fix when I have Headlights loaded with GP gens - and this is without loading that shell from the content.


TheBitterGent  
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 22, 2023 3:53:09 AM(UTC)
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So first off I think you're over thinking it or making it much harder than it is.
It is a good practice to load shells in the order they would be in.

Basic Load order:
1. Load Figure
2. Select Figure
3. Load Graft
4. Apply Skin Textures (or just quickly run Mat Copy a 2nd time later)
5. Run Mat Copy
5. Load Shell
- I like to Load any additional grafts and shells I plan on using at this point, running Mat Copy, and Shell Fix on Shells as I go.
Pro Tip: If your scenes are repetitive, like pinups, then load up a single starter scene as a template and then reload it to create new scenes.
6. Select Shell
7. Add Shell Color or Effects.
8. Correct Mats and Shells Offsets as needed.

You have the Figure (lets say a Table or Person), the Material or Texture (Wood or Skin), then a Shell (Lacquer Polish, or Sweat), And maybe more shells used (layers of Paint, Mud, Makeup, or Blood).

Headlights, each nipple is a Graft, the Mat Copy matches the skin material of the figure, the Shell has additional color and fine details. You'll want all 3.
The headlights shell application script is in the same folder as the grafts (or should be if installed properly).
The Scene Tab has a search bar. You can use it to find any shell node labeled shell in the scene by typing shell in.

Some items most commonly makeups or hierarchical skins with makeups will have imbedded shells. To make matters worse and they aren't always labeled as "shells". So spot check as you work and try and be mindful of your load order.
However, sometimes loading a graft may just bug and break a shell transparency. Things can get even weirder when you use Geometry Editor Tool and then move a figure.

Thankfully Meipe's Shell Fixer works in most cases on multiple shells and is a staple in my scripts menu. Just be careful not to use it with the figure selected.
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Meipe on 7/22/2023(UTC)
marble51  
#3 Posted : Saturday, July 22, 2023 3:01:32 PM(UTC)
marble51

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Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. From your numbered procedure, I think I do follow that pretty much to the letter other than I have not, until now, been loading the Headlights shell. I thought that was only for use with the included nipple colouring options and I like to leave those the way the original character was textured. So I load the headlights and do the MAT copy but nothing more. I generally don't need to use the Meipe Shell Fix if I load the Headlights before the GP Gens but if I load them in the wrong order, the Shell Fix works fine.

However, this whole issue surfaced when I tried to load a Wet Skin shell too. I could get the wet skin shell to cover the GP Gens but the Headlights stubbornly refused to show wet. The only way I could get them to show wet (i.e. be covered by the wet shell) was to add the Headlights shell from the Contents Folder and copy the character MAT to it so that it now looked identical to the headlights beneath. Only then could I follow the procedure for adding the wet shell which is something described in another thread here by 3FeetWolf.

https://www.renderotica....&m=407897#post407897

BrotherHades  
#4 Posted : Saturday, July 22, 2023 4:40:29 PM(UTC)
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How shells work is it'll add all surfaces from the figure to the shell, with most shells the vendors have the basic figures surfaces to turn off automatically. Third party products surfaces are not turned off and as there is no surface information they default to white on the shell. Most Shell fix scripts are set to turn off these extra non mapped surfaces added to the shells. 


 


So in your case where you are adding the MAT Copy to headlights but not the shell, the Wet shell is still going to add the headlight surfaces to the Wet shell, so your best option is going to be copying the Wet shell Torso surface and pasting it to the added surfaces for Headlights on the Wet Shell (You may have to play the wet shell's shader settings on the added headlights surfaces)


marble51  
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:37:59 PM(UTC)
marble51

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Originally Posted by: BrotherHades Go to Quoted Post


So in your case where you are adding the MAT Copy to headlights but not the shell, the Wet shell is still going to add the headlight surfaces to the Wet shell, so your best option is going to be copying the Wet shell Torso surface and pasting it to the added surfaces for Headlights on the Wet Shell (You may have to play the wet shell's shader settings on the added headlights surfaces)



I'm not sure because I lost track of how many things I tried (and failed) before I hit on the right solution but I *think* I did what you suggest here - copy the Wet Shell torso surface to the Headlights shell. However, I am still in the dark about what steps I needed to do before that point and I have not had the time to repeat the whole exercise. In short - I still think I need to add the Headlights shell but I am clueless as to why. I just could not get it to work without having that shell.


BrotherHades  
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2023 3:38:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marble51 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: BrotherHades Go to Quoted Post


So in your case where you are adding the MAT Copy to headlights but not the shell, the Wet shell is still going to add the headlight surfaces to the Wet shell, so your best option is going to be copying the Wet shell Torso surface and pasting it to the added surfaces for Headlights on the Wet Shell (You may have to play the wet shell's shader settings on the added headlights surfaces)



I'm not sure because I lost track of how many things I tried (and failed) before I hit on the right solution but I *think* I did what you suggest here - copy the Wet Shell torso surface to the Headlights shell. However, I am still in the dark about what steps I needed to do before that point and I have not had the time to repeat the whole exercise. In short - I still think I need to add the Headlights shell but I am clueless as to why. I just could not get it to work without having that shell.



Not to the headlights shell. (Technically unless you are using Headlights' shell to recolor or resize the nipples/areola area, it is not needed) On the wet shell there should be surfaces added that are named the same as the Headlights surfaces, copy and paste the wet shell torso surface to those added surfaces (Again you might have to change the base shader on those surfaces, depending on what the added surfaces on the shell defaults to)


marble51  
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2023 3:59:56 PM(UTC)
marble51

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Yes, I understand and I did copy that Wet Shell torso surface to the Headlights shell but I couldn't get it to work without adding that Headlights Shell - it didn't work with just the Headlights surfaces. Which is what prompted my original post - I assumed there must be a shell loaded with the basic Headlights graft but I couldn't find it. I mean other than the extra shell intended for recolouring the nipples.
BrotherHades  
#8 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2023 6:08:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marble51 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I understand and I did copy that Wet Shell torso surface to the Headlights shell but I couldn't get it to work without adding that Headlights Shell - it didn't work with just the Headlights surfaces. Which is what prompted my original post - I assumed there must be a shell loaded with the basic Headlights graft but I couldn't find it. I mean other than the extra shell intended for recolouring the nipples.


 


I think you're misunderstanding. When the Wet Shell is loaded it should add additional surfaces to the Wet Shell to cover the surfaces of the grafts. (Should be something like Headlights.......and Golden Palace Labia Minora, Golden Palace Anus, Golden Palace Torso as examples) you'll want to copy the Wet Shell torso or body surface and then paste to the Graft Surfaces that were added on the Wet Shell. You don't want to mess with the surfaces on any other shells, only the surfaces on the Wet Shell you are using, and you'll want the wet shell's offset to be the highest level, as you want the Wet Shell on top of any other shells included.


 


None of Meipe's grafts automatically will load the shells when you load the graft, you always have to load shell separately (And personally with Headlights and Breastacular I will often just rely on the Graft Material Copy script, rather than the shell, exception being with big areola gals as the additional settings from the Milkaiser expansion with large Areola and shell mask/fades just look better than a BT with just Mat Copy)


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marble51 on 7/23/2023(UTC)
marble51  
#9 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2023 6:53:14 PM(UTC)
marble51

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Originally Posted by: BrotherHades Go to Quoted Post


I think you're misunderstanding. When the Wet Shell is loaded it should add additional surfaces to the Wet Shell to cover the surfaces of the grafts. (Should be something like Headlights.......and Golden Palace Labia Minora, Golden Palace Anus, Golden Palace Torso as examples) you'll want to copy the Wet Shell torso or body surface and then paste to the Graft Surfaces that were added on the Wet Shell. You don't want to mess with the surfaces on any other shells, only the surfaces on the Wet Shell you are using, and you'll want the wet shell's offset to be the highest level, as you want the Wet Shell on top of any other shells included.


 


None of Meipe's grafts automatically will load the shells when you load the graft, you always have to load shell separately (And personally with Headlights and Breastacular I will often just rely on the Graft Material Copy script, rather than the shell, exception being with big areola gals as the additional settings from the Milkaiser expansion with large Areola and shell mask/fades just look better than a BT with just Mat Copy)



I think you might have just pointed out my mistake. I think perhaps I was copying the Wet Shell surface to the Headlights Shell instead of the additional surfaces inherited by the Wet Shell.


As for the last part, yes - I also rely of the MAT Copy script and do not load the extra shell. I just assumed that the base graft came with an unlisted shell too because I also assumed that's what turns white when in conflict with the GP shells.


BrotherHades  
#10 Posted : Monday, July 24, 2023 12:07:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marble51 Go to Quoted Post


 


As for the last part, yes - I also rely of the MAT Copy script and do not load the extra shell. I just assumed that the base graft came with an unlisted shell too because I also assumed that's what turns white when in conflict with the GP shells.



 


No the shells turning white is due to the shells (Any and all on the figure) not having texture information for additional surfaces added to the shells when other grafts are loaded. Basically since as example the Headlights surfaces added to the Golden Palace Shell has no texture information it defaults those Headlight Surfaces on the shell to white, basically the Shell Fix Scripts are just an easy tool to turn off the white un-textured surfaces on the shells. By Daz's preference there should only ever be one Geo Shell used on a figure, and that should cover all surfaces and all added grafts, the use of several shells to add textures or overlay detailed textures on a graft isn't how Daz intended the Geo Shells to be used (Which is why even though the community has requested the shells issue be fixed daz has no plans to fix it because the additional grafts surfaces are meant to be added to the shell, and it was never meant/expected users would be using half a dozen shells on the figure, so to Daz everything is Working as Intended)


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marble51 on 7/24/2023(UTC)
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