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TZO3K1  
#1 Posted : Monday, May 6, 2024 12:49:56 PM(UTC)
TZO3K1

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I just bought your grouping plugin not too long ago, and there seems to be no advantage for this program over DS's own group option.


When adding items for a group with the Daz version, I can select all items to add into a separate group and the whole operation is done within three clicks; however with your plugin, I have to select each item individually, with the marked disadvantage of not being able to one, close down the plugin and lose all tediously added groups, and two, it won't save with the scene or even on its own!


There are no advantages with this over the internal grouping option within Daz Studio, and seeing as this shop doesn't give refunds unless you don't download the products that you bought, negating any practical way to test the product to see if it even works while defeating the entire purpose of even offering a refund!


But that's not on you...


But still, now I'm stuck with a plugin that is a hassle to use, as I don't want some eyesore floating about while working, and you can't even save the groups that you had to tediously make in the first place!


So what is the point of this plugin?

As its practicality ends once you find out that you lose all groups, and you can't even save them, that alone kills any small advantage that this plugin has going for it.


EDIT: I was quite harsh with my criticism, I said that the script was useless, I should not have been so harsh, I should have waited 'til I was no longer irritated before posting this.


 

Edited by user Saturday, May 11, 2024 12:08:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: It's right there...

lightBLUE  
#2 Posted : Monday, May 6, 2024 2:26:12 PM(UTC)
lightBLUE

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This product, and I suppose any other product in the store, has a free readme (instructions) file that you can download and read in order to decide if it is something that you would like to buy or not.
Inside the readme file, it's clearly stated what are the functionalities of the product.

Anyway, I don't mind repeating what is already explained there:
Some nodes (like strand-based hair) are not supposed to be parented, their functionality is therefore affected by grouping in the scene, this product is useful in these cases as it does not affect the grouped nodes in any way.
Also, with this product you can group child nodes (nested bones) and not just the root nodes or figures, again without affecting the bones in any way or changing their parent. You can, for example, group the fingers of one hand and select them easily without searching inside the figure hierarchy.
Grouping nodes in the scene will leave groups sometimes difficult to find in large scenes and easier to find in a separated window, where you have only groups and not every node that is in the scene.

This product does exactly what is written inside the readme file so I don't understand what is causing your frustration anyway.
TZO3K1  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2024 10:18:36 AM(UTC)
TZO3K1

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I wasn't frustrated when I posted this, the only thing that DOES frustrate me is the idiotic refund policy, but that's another issue...


I do not see the advantage with this product as it still doesn't save your work, so it doesn't matter how it uses nodes or stranded hair, it's also like I said, you have to manually input every single node individually, instead of simply selecting multiple nodes to add to a group.


I don't lose track of my groups, as I simply use the scene tab to keep tabs on them, sure this script helps with hair and nested bones, but all the work that goes into making these groups is undermined by the fact that you'll have to **tediously input every node again individually, every time you open up your scene because it doesn't save your work, so it's as I've said any advantage that this script has is undermined by the fact that you cannot save your work.


**(I can easily have at least 25-50 nodes grouped in a large scene)


That's the main issue that this script has, and the one you won't address, as stated with the last person that posted about this product.


 


lightBLUE  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2024 12:23:19 PM(UTC)
lightBLUE

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I clearly stated in the readme file that the values from the sorter window can not be saved, why do you sound surprised by that fact?
So to be clear that is not an issue I won't address, that is simply how this widget works.

There is no out-of-the-box saving system in Daz Studio that I just won't implement to frustrate you so much that you have to repeat that three times :)
I would have to create the widget again in a different manner and also create my own saving system, and as I said this is a helpful widget as is, maybe not for you but for many other users yes.
And if I do create a different one with a saving system in the future, that one would have to be more complex and also more expensive, so if you see it and decide to buy it please make sure to read the readme file before you do so.

You sound irritated by the product which is exactly as advertised because you assumed it was something else and didn't bother to read the readme or instructions files.

And I must add, you say that you're frustrated by the refund policy of this store, but tell me which store gives you a refund because you bought something before you actually read what it is and then decided that is not something you need?
To be honest, it happened to me once, I bought a product without reading the description only to later see that it was not what I assumed. But hey, that was my mistake and not the vendor's or the store's.
And I never even thought about asking for a refund or complaining about the store's policies, cause, after all, it was like 10$ and not 1000$ so I considered that a fairly cheep lesson :)

If it was up to me I would give you that refund rather than discuss something already clear.
TZO3K1  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 8, 2024 8:03:39 AM(UTC)
TZO3K1

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You seem to be really frustrated yourself, as you are sticking with your assumptions about my mood, and snide condescending remarks, which does nothing to change my mind about the product, as I was criticising the product, not you personally...


I read the product page, which is usually where there's pertinent info such as the inability to save grouped objects within the scene, when every single script of this type that I ever bought has the ability to do so... the fact of the matter is that this script's usage ends once you have to reload your scene, it's like having to reconstruct your scene all over again, and again every time you want to work on it, and if you have a heavy scene, it's impractical, as you're better off with DAZ's own grouping system.


The script would be much more useful if we could save our meticulously built groups, I mean, what is the point of painstakingly building up dozens of groups, knowing that you'll have to redo the very same thing over again once you reload your scene?


If you choose to take criticism about your product personally then that's your choice, as for me I don't care enough to take anything said online personally, so I chose not to, plus I have the added bonus with keeping my blood pressure stable; sure I will get irritated by a product, (And I definitely was with this one) but it would be pointless to work myself up as you've assumed, as it's better to get pissed off at inanimate objects rather than people.


And I will continue to criticise a product when I've bought it, that's a given, as it's not like this is a freebie script that I downloaded, so if you plan to sell your work, you should expect criticism of your work, that's what artists/shop keepers have to expect.


FYI: I enunciated my words only to illustrate a point, and not for venting anger, as we are not the only ones reading this exchange and most net-folk only skim for keywords rather than read posts in their entirety.


lightBLUE  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:00:50 AM(UTC)
lightBLUE

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Alright, whatever you say :)

Thanks for your criticism.

Enjoy your day.
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TZO3K1 on 5/8/2024(UTC)
dbxxx  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:16:41 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

I have to add that this product although it's missing the save function still is not useless. I don't make scenes of such complexity that I work on them for weeks. My renders are complex and comprised of many props and lights but I always finish them in a day or two and don't close Daz while working on them. What I need is a quick way to change some of lights after test rendering but can't parent them for example.

Also Daz Studio 4.22 messed something up with scene saving (loading saved scene now can mess up the pose quite badly as well as some of JCMs, haven't figured out yet exactly what the problem is) so I tend to avoid using scene saving at all. With that in mind it doesn't bother me that much that this lacks saving.

If you make super complex scenes and work on them for month I understand your point and I do agree that this needs an update with save feature but the way you commented makes it seam useless and it's not useless. Maybe I'm a bit salty about people rating my products one star when they don't deserve such low grade because that slashes my sales significantly and makes all the hard work pointless.

I do agree that fair criticism is valuable and needed but don't call products useless if they do something ok for lacking some feature you'd like, that's not fair criticism. Destroying persons income won't make them better at what they do it will most likely make them give up trying.
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lightBLUE on 5/8/2024(UTC), TZO3K1 on 5/8/2024(UTC)
TZO3K1  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:10:27 PM(UTC)
TZO3K1

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Originally Posted by: lightBLUE Go to Quoted Post
Alright, whatever you say :)

Thanks for your criticism.

Enjoy your day.


For my part I admittedly was a bit too harsh with the "useless" comment and the general tone, I should have waited a bit longer before I posted, so that's on me, next time I'll pay more attention to the readme files.


Originally Posted by: dbxxx Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
I do agree that fair criticism is valuable and needed but don't call products useless if they do something ok for lacking some feature you'd like, that's not fair criticism. Destroying persons income won't make them better at what they do it will most likely make them give up trying.


You are correct, I was a bit harsh towards the script and I could have toned it down a bit, as I was admittedly irritated and disappointed by the script's sole flaw, every other issue can be accepted, but for the fact that you cannot save, as I deal with large scenes rendering them gobbles up 12-14gb VRam, so it was an issue for me, but yeah, I should have omitted the "useless" comment, that's on me as I should have waited longer to post...


 

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dbxxx on 5/8/2024(UTC), ContentModerator on 5/9/2024(UTC)
dsv4600  
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:39:29 AM(UTC)
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I agree, this product is certainly not useless. Even though I knew about the save issue beforehand I identified a specific Use Case where it served my needs without that functionality; navigating down into deep hierarchies to select parented props.

It would definitely be a welcome addition to have a Save capability, but I have another suggestion about the selection methodology: When nodes in a Group are clicked they are selected in the Scene Tree as though they were CTRL+Clicked on. This is fine, except for the very first node, because there will almost always be something selected in the Scene Tree. It may be that you want to add the nodes to that selection but I rarely need to do that, so I have to Right Click the Scene Tree first and choose Select -> Clear Selection before using the Scene Sorter to select what I do want. How about a button on the Scene Sorter window to "Clear Existing Selections"? - I know it only saves one mouse click but it does keep the group selection mechanism in one place. While I'm thinking of that it might also be nice to have an option to deselect some or all of the nodes from the Scene Sorter.

These are just suggestions. Not criticisms.
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lightBLUE on 5/9/2024(UTC)
lightBLUE  
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 9, 2024 4:20:36 AM(UTC)
lightBLUE

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Hey dsv4600, thanks for the suggestions.

I thought about what would be more convenient regarding the selection and in the end I wrote it in that way, but I can see your point.
When I was testing it I just clicked on an empty space in the scene to clear the selection but I can understand that some scenes might be packed and therefore a "clear selection button" could be useful.
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dsv4600 on 5/9/2024(UTC)
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