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billyben  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 3:35:50 PM(UTC)
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I just don't get it.  G8 has been out for almost 2 years and G9 is getting ready to come out soon and we sill have vendor doing G3 only pose sets and products.  Some of DAVO's new stuff would have been an instabuy if they had had G8 poses instead of G3 poses.  Now I see that nEO has released a couple of pose sets for "Crew of Solaris: and both are for G3 only.  I have the sets so wouold also havbe been an instabuy of they ahd been G8  I know I can convert them to G8 but what is the point?  I can't see spending ing over $30.00 for two pose sets then convert them to G8.  More lost sales for the vendors that sell here.  Rant mode off now.  Time to take my meds


Bill
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SkatingJesus  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:06:42 PM(UTC)
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It's because V7 has its fans (like me), and some people still works with V7 and even V6.


 


V4, 12 years old, is still very popular for new stuff because of the fact that it is the most sold model ever, and so, a lot of potential customers.


jca88  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 5:30:18 PM(UTC)
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At least half of the characters I use for stories are still G3, mostly because of the vast library of clothes and poses


Communications  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 5:48:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: billyben Go to Quoted Post


I just don't get it.  G8 has been out for almost 2 years and G9 is getting ready to come out soon and we sill have vendor doing G3 only pose sets and products.  Some of DAVO's new stuff would have been an instabuy if they had had G8 poses instead of G3 poses.  Now I see that nEO has released a couple of pose sets for "Crew of Solaris: and both are for G3 only.  I have the sets so wouold also havbe been an instabuy of they ahd been G8  I know I can convert them to G8 but what is the point?  I can't see spending ing over $30.00 for two pose sets then convert them to G8.  More lost sales for the vendors that sell here.  Rant mode off now.  Time to take my meds



IMHO, Daz kind of shot themselves in the foot with the release of G8, because of all the 'backwards compatibility" there was never really a "you HAVE to upgrade" G8 uses by default all G3 skins and gens skins and all the L.I.E stuff for everything else,  they also wear 99% of all clothing for G3, and when it comes to poses most just need a bit of tweaking,  so MANY of the end users have been slow to adapt to buying and using ONLY G8.


And I feel the same thing will happen whenever they release 9, because now that they have introduced the B.C. it would be a bad move to not keep it up.


I JUST now started moving over to more G8 stuff under my vendor name,  but I'm still including G3 versions until....  well prolly till it becomes too much work lol


SnarltheWerewolf  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:00:02 PM(UTC)
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But Daz has gone on record that there's no G9 coming this year and thus breaking the every 2 year cycle. I'm glad that they're pausing for a bit.
Masterstroke  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:15:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SnarltheWerewolf Go to Quoted Post
But Daz has gone on record that there's no G9 coming this year and thus breaking the every 2 year cycle. I'm glad that they're pausing for a bit.


Correct. G3 stuff is not sooo bad and quite easy to convert to G8.

G2 and even V2 new releases really upsets me.


ProtocolZero  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:30:30 PM(UTC)
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Sickleyield put up a post a week or so ago saying the Genesis 9 is NOT coming out anytime soon. (https://www.deviantart.com/sickleyield/journal/Genesis-9-Is-Not-Coming-791771535)

The short version is that DAZ is supposedly focusing on improving DAZ Studio itself, expanding and solidifying its capabilities before trying to push out a new batch of human figures.
matt  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 7:09:52 PM(UTC)
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I have been trying to use G8 as a base for any of my custom characters, but my G8 library has a lot of catching up to do. I have literally THOUSANDS of dollars worth of G3 content, some works well with G8, some not so much, like hair. It fits and conforms, but half the time the morph dials do nothing, so If I want to use that hair on my character, just as an example, I either have to go buy the G8 version if it's even available, usually not, or I have to use G3 as a base. And why not? Once I've textured them, morphed them, and posed them, I can't see any difference.


I still buy G3 content, though I've been trying to move to more G8 stuff, but if all I want to do is make an image and G3 is my best option for what I'm trying to do, I don't hesitate.


What I would REALLY like to see more vendors do, especially with pose sets, is create both. Use that pose converter before you market it, and double your customer base.


SnarltheWerewolf  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 7:10:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ProtocolZero Go to Quoted Post
Sickleyield put up a post a week or so ago saying the Genesis 9 is NOT coming out anytime soon. (https://www.deviantart.com/sickleyield/journal/Genesis-9-Is-Not-Coming-791771535)

The short version is that DAZ is supposedly focusing on improving DAZ Studio itself, expanding and solidifying its capabilities before trying to push out a new batch of human figures.


 


Which I applaud them for. There's too many other things wrong with Daz that releasing yet a new base figure will not fix. For as badly as they want to be taken seriously as a real player in the 3D world, their program is laughably bad for real workflows for real 3D studios. But for consumers, and being free, it's acceptable.


 


I do hope we continue to get new and unique characters. One of the things that killed me with G3 was they were just getting real cool and unique (like Centaur 7) and then Daz dropped G8 and we went back to cookie cutter slim white people and another round of the same morph packages to fix all the (still existing) issue with the new figure :-P


billyben  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:43:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: matt Go to Quoted Post


I have been trying to use G8 as a base for any of my custom characters, but my G8 library has a lot of catching up to do. I have literally THOUSANDS of dollars worth of G3 content, some works well with G8, some not so much, like hair. It fits and conforms, but half the time the morph dials do nothing, so If I want to use that hair on my character, just as an example, I either have to go buy the G8 version if it's even available, usually not, or I have to use G3 as a base. And why not? Once I've textured them, morphed them, and posed them, I can't see any difference.


I still buy G3 content, though I've been trying to move to more G8 stuff, but if all I want to do is make an image and G3 is my best option for what I'm trying to do, I don't hesitate.


What I would REALLY like to see more vendors do, especially with pose sets, is create both. Use that pose converter before you market it, and double your customer base.



Matt, head over to Deviant Art.  Sickleyield has a tutorial for fitting G3 stuff to G8.  I used it to make a G8 fit for Swam's HLee Hair for Genesis 3 and Out Of Touch's Sporty Ponytail for G3 and was able to keep all of the morphs.


Hope this helps

Edited by user Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:48:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Bill
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davo  
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 10:52:55 AM(UTC)
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Personally, I cringe when a new figure comes out. I really wonder if vendors and users sit there and go "gee, I wish they would come out with a new figure after I dropped thousands on this one and the new figure won't fit it well if at all".

From a vendor perspective, it's a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation. We feel like, at least I do, that if we support the newest figure, we'll get backlash from the old figure users, or if we support the older figure, we get backlash from the new figure users. The process of building an environmental set is extremely tedious and poses are at the tail end of a process that makes our eyes want to bleed, so we gotta choose who we want to support.

Perhaps if there was a reliable opinion poll on this site, one that is guaranteed to be accurate with the results deciding which figure vendors will support and which vendors will charge extra for extra support, that would be cool.

D


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billyben on 5/16/2019(UTC), banditcameraman on 5/16/2019(UTC), Blir on 5/22/2019(UTC)
billyben  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 12:57:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I cringe when a new figure comes out. I really wonder if vendors and users sit there and go "gee, I wish they would come out with a new figure after I dropped thousands on this one and the new figure won't fit it well if at all".

From a vendor perspective, it's a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation. We feel like, at least I do, that if we support the newest figure, we'll get backlash from the old figure users, or if we support the older figure, we get backlash from the new figure users. The process of building an environmental set is extremely tedious and poses are at the tail end of a process that makes our eyes want to bleed, so we gotta choose who we want to support.

Perhaps if there was a reliable opinion poll on this site, one that is guaranteed to be accurate with the results deciding which figure vendors will support and which vendors will charge extra for extra support, that would be cool.

D


I don't know about anyone else but I made the move to Genesis 8 due to the better expressions.  About the only G3 figure I still use is Fredel's Jun Character and really wish he would update her to G8 or make a similar character for G8 because my dial spinning to try to make a G8 version of her is a poor second.  DAVO, I love your stuff, but having to go back and try to make G8 fits for all of your wonderful contraptions makes it not feasible for me to spend my limited budget on them until there are actual poses because I have tried converting some of your older items bought before G8 came out and there are always issues that seem to come up.  I would rather try to create art instead if fighting issues with converting products.  I am hoping that Freeone has some more G8 poses soon for some of your items.


Bill
I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused
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Dareshiranu on 5/22/2019(UTC)
davo  
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 3:31:50 PM(UTC)
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I know Freeone is making G8 poses for all my new stuff recently. You might want to ping him if you have an older product since dreadworks 4 that you'd like converted.
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billyben on 5/16/2019(UTC)
EvilSteve  
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:07:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps if there was a reliable opinion poll on this site, one that is guaranteed to be accurate with the results deciding which figure vendors will support and which vendors will charge extra for extra support, that would be cool.


I suspect the only guaranteed reliable & accurate opinion poll is "what do people actually spend money on?"


davo  
#15 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:27:22 PM(UTC)
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I suspect the only guaranteed reliable & accurate opinion poll is "what do people actually spend money on?"

Lol, it would have to be more specific, what figure do you spend money on. I know people make requests "I'd buy this or that if somebody made it", then when we make it, it sells very limited copies. I know I'd spend money on a LaFemme vagina/anus set. Nobody seems to be taking up the gauntlet on that (insert sad face).
SnarltheWerewolf  
#16 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:14:10 PM(UTC)
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The sad truth is that G3 had all the same pose bones as G8 does in the face, just Daz "hid" them on the figure. You can easily turn them on with a few mouse clicks.


The only thing G8 does better as a base model is the leg/hip area when you lift their leg up (think like someing sitting with their legs tucked up in front of them and feet pointing at each other). It's better on G8 than G3. However, that leg/hip bend twist has always been an issue. If you take any daz base figure, click on the right thing and turn the bend/twist/sideways to the max the thigh/hip area will tear on the geometry :P


Originally Posted by: billyben Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I cringe when a new figure comes out. I really wonder if vendors and users sit there and go "gee, I wish they would come out with a new figure after I dropped thousands on this one and the new figure won't fit it well if at all".

From a vendor perspective, it's a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation. We feel like, at least I do, that if we support the newest figure, we'll get backlash from the old figure users, or if we support the older figure, we get backlash from the new figure users. The process of building an environmental set is extremely tedious and poses are at the tail end of a process that makes our eyes want to bleed, so we gotta choose who we want to support.

Perhaps if there was a reliable opinion poll on this site, one that is guaranteed to be accurate with the results deciding which figure vendors will support and which vendors will charge extra for extra support, that would be cool.

D


I don't know about anyone else but I made the move to Genesis 8 due to the better expressions.  About the only G3 figure I still use is Fredel's Jun Character and really wish he would update her to G8 or make a similar character for G8 because my dial spinning to try to make a G8 version of her is a poor second.  DAVO, I love your stuff, but having to go back and try to make G8 fits for all of your wonderful contraptions makes it not feasible for me to spend my limited budget on them until there are actual poses because I have tried converting some of your older items bought before G8 came out and there are always issues that seem to come up.  I would rather try to create art instead if fighting issues with converting products.  I am hoping that Freeone has some more G8 poses soon for some of your items.



BrotherHades  
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:42:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post

I know I'd spend money on a LaFemme vagina/anus set. Nobody seems to be taking up the gauntlet on that (insert sad face).


 


I'm wondering if that is due to Poser's lack of geografting. If you look at the current group of Genital Gurus, they have been working exclusively in DS and using geografts. With LaFemme we would once again be looking at a conforming genital which did not always work well. (I can think of several genital conformers that left a gap between the torso/hip of the base figure and the conforming genital, and at least one that was completely off unless you used it as a parented item, rather than conforming it)


Overall I'm not sure if there are enough users of LaFemme here to entice any vendors to create the vagina/anus set. I mean the idea is to get as many sales as possible, and I'm not sure how many users of LaFemme there are out there, even with *deleted* giving away the base model Free with a purchase. I know I have barely used her at all.


DrippingWet  
#18 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 10:25:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Teronsuke Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: billyben Go to Quoted Post


I just don't get it.  G8 has been out for almost 2 years and G9 is getting ready to come out soon and we sill have vendor doing G3 only pose sets and products.  Some of DAVO's new stuff would have been an instabuy if they had had G8 poses instead of G3 poses.  Now I see that nEO has released a couple of pose sets for "Crew of Solaris: and both are for G3 only.  I have the sets so wouold also havbe been an instabuy of they ahd been G8  I know I can convert them to G8 but what is the point?  I can't see spending ing over $30.00 for two pose sets then convert them to G8.  More lost sales for the vendors that sell here.  Rant mode off now.  Time to take my meds



IMHO, Daz kind of shot themselves in the foot with the release of G8, because of all the 'backwards compatibility" there was never really a "you HAVE to upgrade" G8 uses by default all G3 skins and gens skins and all the L.I.E stuff for everything else,  they also wear 99% of all clothing for G3, and when it comes to poses most just need a bit of tweaking,  so MANY of the end users have been slow to adapt to buying and using ONLY G8.


And I feel the same thing will happen whenever they release 9, because now that they have introduced the B.C. it would be a bad move to not keep it up.


I JUST now started moving over to more G8 stuff under my vendor name,  but I'm still including G3 versions until....  well prolly till it becomes too much work lol


G8's saving grace was that it IS fairly compatible with G3, sadly, except for the morphs. It's really so minimal an improvement over G3 (and apart from the change of base pose, the improvements are actually questionable), that its quality was not a reason to obtain it. If clothes, textures and poses had not been so easily convertible between G3 and G8, there would've been no excuse for anybody at all to invest even a penny into G8.


Gladly, there are plenty tools to make the exchange between G3 and G8 assets more convenient, and there is even someone working on a scripted tool to exchange morphs between the two.


Does Daz shoot itself in the foot with that compatibility? No, not at all! It actually encourages G3 users to invest in G8 as well, while it also encourages G8 users to invest in older products.
For Daz Artists, the high compatibility is a blessing as well: instead of having to constantly answer requests for updated products to new figures, they can quickly advice customers to invest in conversion tools, so they focus on creating new products (that's the point of being an artist: being creative and conjuring up new things that people haven't seen before) instead of updating their old stuff.

Zaavaleta  
#19 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 1:38:59 PM(UTC)
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I haven't upgraded to G8 and I probably won't. I do love some of the characters because they're so lifelike with the HD morphs. But I'm not spending the money to buy all the head & body morphs plus the gens when G3 works just fine for me. I have started buying some G8 clothes and they transfer to G3 pretty easily, so I'm happy. I'm probably going to wait and upgrade to G9 when it comes out, whenever that is.


Besides, if they tried to release G9 now, I don't think there's any new technology they could use as a selling point.


G1's main selling point was weight mapping, plus a ton of other stuff (advanced ERC, cross gender clothes swapping)


G2 ?????


G3 coincided with the introduction of Iray


G8 introduced HD morphs


G9 ??? - Dforce and strand based hair, maybe. But those can be applied to any model with a little effort.


billyben  
#20 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 3:10:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


I haven't upgraded to G8 and I probably won't. I do love some of the characters because they're so lifelike with the HD morphs. But I'm not spending the money to buy all the head & body morphs plus the gens when G3 works just fine for me. I have started buying some G8 clothes and they transfer to G3 pretty easily, so I'm happy. I'm probably going to wait and upgrade to G9 when it comes out, whenever that is.


Besides, if they tried to release G9 now, I don't think there's any new technology they could use as a selling point.


G1's main selling point was weight mapping, plus a ton of other stuff (advanced ERC, cross gender clothes swapping)


G2 ?????


G3 coincided with the introduction of Iray


G8 introduced HD morphs


G9 ??? - Dforce and strand based hair, maybe. But those can be applied to any model with a little effort.



One of the reasons I adopted G8 was Meipe's Golden Palace Gens and the better expressions..  There are a lot of assets that do convert easily between G3 & G8 and visa versa with some notable exceptions (shoes & some of the bondage goodies that are sold here).  According to the scuttlebutt over at DAZ, G9 won't be out for a while.  According to some of the PA's over at DAZ, they have not even started working on G9 yet because they are working on DS to make the program better.


Bill
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