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matt  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2019 2:59:13 PM(UTC)
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I didn't say that it couldn't be done, I said it would put them on shaky legal ground if they did. As I mentioned, I've read the entire UA as I tend to do with all free software, there's no mention of anything like that in it.


DeepSpace3D  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2019 9:45:52 AM(UTC)
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Poser user since 1999 and Poser content creator since 2010 or thereabouts. I bought Poser Pro 11 just as I'd bought every upgrade since Poser 5 but was really quite disappointed - some improvement in content creation but too buggy to make it worthwhile, Superfly renderer looked promising but didn't look as good as Daz with Iray, PBR materials easier to use though. Sadly, I bit the bullet over a year ago and tried Daz Studio for the first time - bit of a learning curve but then the pleasure of being able to work with Iray finally swung it (even with a low-end nVidia card).

The Daz market is bigger, the software more user-friendly in many areas and content creation is much slicker once you know what you're doing. For me, I'd love to be able to go back to Poser but even with PE, there isn't a figure to match Genesis 8 and its derivitives and (imho) the renderer is better, so I'm exclusively producing for Daz Studio these days. Smith Micro would have to pull something amazing out of the bag to lure me back - somehow I don't see that happening - they've blown it big time.
coolcool  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2019 10:46:04 AM(UTC)
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I can understand the hard feelings people are having but like some have already stated it's Posers (AKA SM) fault they dropped the ball and Daz picked it up and ran with it , and they have been making touch down after touch down improving it better and better and if you look to the future at whats been going on in Daz you'll see that its only looking better in a year or two  or so G9 will come out  which will probably be better than G8 what right now is pretty amazing  . just my OP   Daz rules Poser Drools  lol  
 


 


Zaavaleta  
#24 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2019 6:48:52 AM(UTC)
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I'd hate to see Poser go away. I just hope that their content deal with *deleted* brings in some cash. I guess the problem is that SM is a software company, they want to make money selling software. Meanwhile, Daz, Hivewire3d, *deleted*, this site and others are raking in the money selling content. I don't see Poser improving much under the current ownership.


shadoman  
#25 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:14:59 AM(UTC)
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Although I agree Smith Micro can do more to improve Poser,  I am at an age where any new deveopements no longer concern me as I had mentioned above, that I was not a big fan of P-11 Pro.   I agree with the poster about the Superfly rendering engine not being all that great and would not process any textures using SSS shaders before it's release.


Also Smith Micro has been involved with other ventures and dropped the ball.


They created some Registry Program that worked well in windows 7  but bailed out of when Win-10 came along.


Then they started a Cloud Hosting site to send large files to clients for a very reasonable yearly fee and then three years later dropped the service. Based on their lack of commitment,  I will give the next version of Poser a pass


As to props for V4 M4  It's good that *deleted* still supports the format, and have showcased some items from Content Paradise 


Regards Shadoman


 


 


Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
falco669  
#26 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 12:51:18 PM(UTC)
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I think the 1-2 punch of G3/Iray was the dagger blow V4 and SM had been dodging for years. Though I also have to say Daz Studio 4.7 was a silent member of that triple threat. The UI overhaul in 4.7 brought an aura of seriousness and professionalism to the product. I know it made me take Daz Studio more seriously back then and I was using poser pro 2104 at the time.
The thing about supporting V4 is which V4 do you support. 4.2 base? This is what nearly all support has defaulted to but that's basically because daz said so. It was the limit of their support but unfortunately it's not the limits of what V4 can be. I was never running stock V4's at the end of my poser days. The stock model has multiple flaws. I personally ran Xameva's perfect morphs on a preload; others used WM4.2. GND was another option. But to get things to fit right with those bases required a lot of time in pro's fitting room.
And that was a big problem, imho. The community could not come to a revised set standard on just what V4 should be supported, especially after daz pulled the plug in 2011 and support was now coming from third party sites. So you see models like dawn/dusk emerging during this period in response to these pressures. And that set V4 to get the wipe it got when G3 rolled out with iray. And you could watch it slowly dissapear from relevance as the hair makers stopped making an effort to include a V4 version.
So if you were to support V4 in 2019.. your direct market would be holdouts. You would have an indirect market thanks to various converters on the market. Quite a few Rendo sellers keep cranking out v4/m4 based material, but nearly all of them were established vendors before Iray. So they got loyal customers. There's another pitfall to consider if you're a new vendor wanting to make V4 content: 10 years of content has resulted in a LOT of content being dicontinued and hidden from view.. which creates a minefield of redundancy.
The only way I personally see any real return to where we were, say, 5 years ago, is some sort of purist movement akin to vanilla wow.
Ponyplay covers a wide range of activities.. but at its core there are two types of ponyplayers: Those that prance and those that pull. These are not mutually exclusive.
matt  
#27 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 7:42:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: falco669 Go to Quoted Post

The thing about supporting V4 is which V4 do you support. 4.2 base? This is what nearly all support has defaulted to but that's basically because daz said so. It was the limit of their support but unfortunately it's not the limits of what V4 can be. I was never running stock V4's at the end of my poser days. The stock model has multiple flaws. I personally ran Xameva's perfect morphs on a preload; others used WM4.2. GND was another option. But to get things to fit right with those bases required a lot of time in pro's fitting room.
And that was a big problem, imho.


You hit it right there. Towards the end of my Poser days as I've mentioned elsewhere, I mainly just did nude renders because NONE of my custom V4 characters could be easily clothed unless I used dynamic cloth, which just added a whole extra layer to creating an image or series of images. FWIW, I was using Poser Pro 2012, which did not have the fitting room. 


When I loaded up Studio for the first time, morphed a G3F and put a shirt on her and it just....fit.....I nearly shit myself. I don't think I've used Poser since. It took me a while to really understand Studio and its differences, I kept trying to do things the way I did them in Poser and that just doesn't work. 


But the point that SM just hasn't kept up and that it is entirely their fault is correct. The things that Studio can do such as autofit, geografts, cross-figure compatibility, clothing conversion, etc could easily have been done in Poser. It just wasn't, and now that's what content buyers want. It's like offering a new 2019 car with a cassette deck. You won't have a lot of uptake on that option.


shadoman  
#28 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2019 12:31:54 AM(UTC)
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To old to learn a new routine and just can't afford supporting a new format with clothes, hairs, textures. poses and expressions


I can relate to the clothing problems but I make do with post work skills to fix flaws . 


You know I bought Poser 11 and really did not ike it that much so I work with Poser pro 2014 and even though Poser has tried t come up with something new to work within poser 11, I think it's a vast improvement,  but it needs more development


I will not purchase another version of Poser so for me it's Pro 2014  till I sop making renders and comics.


Shado


Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
thanks 1 user thanked shadoman for this useful post.
bodo on 5/5/2019(UTC)
emilhoff  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 8:43:03 PM(UTC)
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Look, I just want more clothes and toys for my dolls. I'm perfectly happy with V4, and have come to accept the joint issues that crop up from time to time. But if all DAZ cares about is the money, you'd think they'd want to expand their market (if only by a little) by making some way to adapt Genesis-based content for Poser/V4. (NOT DSON. Don't ever mention DSON in my presence.)

I've started to mess around with Blender lately. For anybody who doesn't know, Blender is, umm, rather powerful 3D software that is free and open-source. And free. Maybe some Blender demigod could create an add-on to import DAZGenesis stuff and export it for Poser/V4?

BTW, I highly recommend getting Blender. It's free, it has a humongous community for tutorials and support, it can do ANYTHING, and if there's something it can't do then somebody somewhere is working on adding it. And did I mention it's free? So far I've just used it a couple of times to make simple OBJ props to import into Poser. But I'm starting to think about making Blender part of the whole 'pipeline' - use Poser to to do what Poser does, then bringing stuff over to Blender to do everything else.
Masterstroke  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 10:09:54 PM(UTC)
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Why on earth should DAZ do that? No need to. DAZ Studio is a better place for all Genesis generations. Why care for Poser? La Femme or PE are great for Poser. Use those figures.
brookes  
#31 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2019 5:05:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: emilhoff Go to Quoted Post
Look, I just want more clothes and toys for my dolls. I'm perfectly happy with V4.....
I've started to mess around with Blender lately. For anybody who doesn't know, Blender is, umm, rather powerful 3D software that is free and open-source. And free. Maybe some Blender demigod could create an add-on to import DAZGenesis stuff and export it for Poser/V4?

BTW, I highly recommend getting Blender. It's free, it has a humongous community for tutorials and support, it can do ANYTHING, and if there's something it can't do then somebody somewhere is working on adding it. And did I mention it's free? So far I've just used it a couple of times to make simple OBJ props to import into Poser. But I'm starting to think about making Blender part of the whole 'pipeline' - use Poser to to do what Poser does, then bringing stuff over to Blender to do everything else.


Although I've played with the Genesis girls a bit, I still use Vicky Fourpointtwoplusplus as my main girl (isn't she just the cutest?).  All the Genesis ladies together don't have near as many characters, expressions and pose sets, and lets not mention her wardrobe.  My Vicky has a ton of clothes she hasn't worn yet.  Oh...did I mention jewelry?   Mesh doesn't age and using the Iray Uber shader makes her look as good as any Genesis broad; better perhaps because of her higher polygon count.  Despite being at this since the very beginning of Poser and the very first version of Studio, I'm not very good at it, but I've seen stuff done with Vicky in other forums that makes most Genesis renders jealous.


I'm also a longtime Blender user and agree that it's bloody amazing.  The new 2.8 version is finally  (Yippee!!) much more intuitive and easy to use.  I'm making my own line of execution toys (think Davo and DirtierEddy with a Victorian/Art Deco flair) but won't be selling them publicly due to rampant piracy and all the brokerage's complete unwillingness to do anything about it.


 


Masterstroke  
#32 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2019 6:47:36 AM(UTC)
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My eyes just hurt, when I have to see V4/Poser renders like that:
I called this pic:"Poser Gallery Nightmare"

Edited by user Thursday, May 23, 2019 6:49:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Masterstroke attached the following image(s):
Poser Gallery Nightmare.jpg
Darkseal  
#33 Posted : Friday, June 7, 2019 3:49:28 AM(UTC)
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I've been making Poser content for the last 10 years. I have slowed down to a snail crawl on making items because I no longer get people purchasing my new products. I can count on one hand how many times I've gotten feedback from the community on "what people want", and one person can only make so many penises... If 20 people say the want item X, and when item X is made only 2 people buy it, it can be an issue when making these 3d items has become my full time job and have no other outside income. Conversely, the pirate market is so large, I can plainly see on one site when the same item X is downloaded 3672 times.

I've tried supplementing with my own *deleted*, my own *deleted*, but alas I've only managed to entice 3 people to join and stay for my 3d items. I think I've released something like 207 products here, the majority made for Poser (cause I do have tutorials), and I haven't heard a peep from anyone on over 200 of them. People that I have talked too say "well you're just not making what people want".



So, in short, if you want content creators to make poser items, or continue to make v4 clothing, morphs, etc... Make sure you tell them in some way (pm, comment on art posted on DA, here, YT, etc...). And, when they make something you've asked them to make, buy it.


ps: Iike the way V4 looks


 

Edited by user Friday, June 7, 2019 3:54:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Darkseal attached the following image(s):
BoleroMain8x8.png
CorsetResMAIN8x8.png
ReversePrayerRestraint8x8.png
hybridposedonefoot.jpg
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Octane WallpaperYellowElf.jpg
breast1.jpg
brookes  
#34 Posted : Friday, June 7, 2019 4:33:47 AM(UTC)
brookes

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Originally Posted by: Darkseal Go to Quoted Post


I've been making Poser content for the last 10 years. I have slowed down to a snail crawl on making items because I no longer get people purchasing my new products. I can count on one hand how many times I've gotten feedback from the community on "what people want", and one person can only make so many penises... If 20 people say the want item X, and when item X is made only 2 people buy it, it can be an issue when making these 3d items has become my full time job and have no other outside income. Conversely, the pirate market is so large, I can plainly see on one site when the same item X is downloaded 3672 times.

I've tried supplementing with my own renderotica, my own *deleted*, but alas I've only managed to entice 3 people to join and stay for my 3d items. I think I've released something like 207 products here, the majority made for Poser (cause I do have tutorials), and I haven't heard a peep from anyone on over 200 of them. People that I have talked too say "well you're just not making what people want".

So, in short, if you want content creators to make poser items, or continue to make v4 clothing, morphs, etc... Make sure you tell them in some way (pm, comment on art posted on DA, here, YT, etc...). And, when they make something you've asked them to make, buy it.


ps: Iike the way V4 looks


Hurray for that!   I'm one of the few people who provide feedback to content creators when I buy stuff.  Unfortunately I rarely get a note back from the CC saying thanks for the comments.   I've also made many suggestions for new and original items.


I'm also one of the few people who buy items and have been railing against R'otica to effing do something!   I sorely miss the Doc and because of the lack of action against the pirates, I'll be keeping my new gizmo to myself and a small group of fellow pervs.  Kudos to you Darkseal for voicing your opinion.


thanks 1 user thanked brookes for this useful post.
Darkseal on 6/8/2019(UTC)
Darkseal  
#35 Posted : Saturday, June 8, 2019 5:13:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: brookes Go to Quoted Post


 I'm one of the few people who provide feedback to content creators when I buy stuff.



Kudos back at you for providing feedback to creators, I wish people did that for me. If people don't voice directly to content creators that "We want X type of content for Z type figure" don't expect it to get done. I've read and reread the wishlist for items here and it's not really helpful at all. If only people would go there en-mass and create threads, voting, something... to unify a voice that tells content creators what to make and KNOW it will see support. Because when I go to the threads there right now the things that stand out to me the most is "v8, gen3, gen8, m8, daz, etc...", and replies range from 2-14 on the majority of posts. That's replies, not individual people saying "yeah, that sounds like something I'd buy".


 


It all really comes down to time vs reward (for me anyway, cause I'm doing this as my job). If I work 8 hours a day for 10 days on an item, and sell that for $12 at the store (getting only 50% of that), and only end up selling 14 of them.... it comes to 80 hours of work for $84. I'll pay roughly 25% of that to federal and state taxes, so I'll keep about $65. That's a whopping $0.81 per hour worked. I had 45 products (yes, 45) that sold only 1 or 2 copies for all of 2018. Many of them are projects that took weeks to make...


 


So, in short, PLEASE make your voices be heard, your wants and needs be known. One unified voice on items wanted for Poser figures, v4 items, anything strictly poser related, would be an amazing boon to content creators.


SnarltheWerewolf  
#36 Posted : Saturday, June 8, 2019 9:46:57 PM(UTC)
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Serious question, is there much money left to be made in Poser? I've been doing 3D for close to a decade, started when Daz went free with Genesis. In that time I've met quite a few other 3D artists and artists just starting out and no one seems to naturally gravitate to Poser. Especially considering that Poser costs quite a bit of $ versus Daz being... well, free 


The community itself (especially on the Rendo and Smith Micro forums) seems very combative and cranky. On multiple occasion I've seen new figures get released and then everyone shits on the poor person who made it, and that figure goes no where.


I say this partially because I'm curious, but also because you, Darkseal, are very talented and creative and I'm wondering if you'd be make more cashing making props for Daz Studio and the more recent generation of figures instead of Poser.


Again, no offense meant, just my opinion from being a long time Daz user that tries to stay up to date with what's going on in Poser land.


Originally Posted by: Darkseal Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: brookes Go to Quoted Post


 I'm one of the few people who provide feedback to content creators when I buy stuff.



Kudos back at you for providing feedback to creators, I wish people did that for me. If people don't voice directly to content creators that "We want X type of content for Z type figure" don't expect it to get done. I've read and reread the wishlist for items here and it's not really helpful at all. If only people would go there en-mass and create threads, voting, something... to unify a voice that tells content creators what to make and KNOW it will see support. Because when I go to the threads there right now the things that stand out to me the most is "v8, gen3, gen8, m8, daz, etc...", and replies range from 2-14 on the majority of posts. That's replies, not individual people saying "yeah, that sounds like something I'd buy".


 


It all really comes down to time vs reward (for me anyway, cause I'm doing this as my job). If I work 8 hours a day for 10 days on an item, and sell that for $12 at the store (getting only 50% of that), and only end up selling 14 of them.... it comes to 80 hours of work for $84. I'll pay roughly 25% of that to federal and state taxes, so I'll keep about $65. That's a whopping $0.81 per hour worked. I had 45 products (yes, 45) that sold only 1 or 2 copies for all of 2018. Many of them are projects that took weeks to make...


 


So, in short, PLEASE make your voices be heard, your wants and needs be known. One unified voice on items wanted for Poser figures, v4 items, anything strictly poser related, would be an amazing boon to content creators.



brookes  
#37 Posted : Sunday, June 9, 2019 5:21:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Darkseal Go to Quoted Post


It all really comes down to time vs reward (for me anyway, cause I'm doing this as my job). If I work 8 hours a day for 10 days on an item, and sell that for $12 at the store (getting only 50% of that), and only end up selling 14 of them.... it comes to 80 hours of work for $84. I'll pay roughly 25% of that to federal and state taxes, so I'll keep about $65. That's a whopping $0.81 per hour worked. I had 45 products (yes, 45) that sold only 1 or 2 copies for all of 2018. Many of them are projects that took weeks to make...


I'd like to suggest that you join the pirate sites (if you don't know where they are please PM me, I keep tabs on them) and mention this.  Then ask why they feel justified in stealing your items.  What would they do if they spent hundreds of hours making something only to see it traded openly.  You might also try selling at Summoner's site.  The pirate punks don't seem to bother with the smaller vendors.


shadoman  
#38 Posted : Sunday, June 9, 2019 9:12:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: brookes Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Darkseal Go to Quoted Post


It all really comes down to time vs reward (for me anyway, cause I'm doing this as my job). If I work 8 hours a day for 10 days on an item, and sell that for $12 at the store (getting only 50% of that), and only end up selling 14 of them.... it comes to 80 hours of work for $84. I'll pay roughly 25% of that to federal and state taxes, so I'll keep about $65. That's a whopping $0.81 per hour worked. I had 45 products (yes, 45) that sold only 1 or 2 copies for all of 2018. Many of them are projects that took weeks to make...


I'd like to suggest that you join the pirate sites (if you don't know where they are please PM me, I keep tabs on them) and mention this.  Then ask why they feel justified in stealing your items.  What would they do if they spent hundreds of hours making something only to see it traded openly.  You might also try selling at Summoner's site.  The pirate punks don't seem to bother with the smaller vendors.



Those pirate sites could care less ....   Yes they might honor a DCMA if issued,  but they will argue with excuses like...  we are giving you a tribute for all your hard work, then you can retort,  A tribute is displaying some sample images and then point them to my website to actually buy a product.


Then they will say   but if you offer a few items for free   more people will come and buy your items , and then your replay..  OK  one Item  maybe two,   but every product I own is here.. so How do I make money that way..


Finally they will just say,  hey if it's on the internet than it's up for grabs  our website did not post the items a member did  how are we to know what is copyrighted and what is not  for all we know this is a public domain item..


The bottom line here is that most of these pirates and their followers   think they have a right to all these items for free,  this goes for props,  comics,  movies and music  and nothing can sway them to understand that piracy is wrong and hurts the livelyhood of the folks who create these items


Regards  Shado


 


 


 


Who knows what lurks in the hearts of perverted artist....
The Shado Knows
diogenese19348  
#39 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39:56 PM(UTC)
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Guys, this really is a Smith Micro problem and DAZ has nothing to do with it. The reason Poser Items are selling less and less is Poser is not attracting new users because Smith Micro is useless at marketing to end users. When was the last time you saw an ad for Poser Software? You do realize you are all long term Poser users, do you see any short term ones around?

To put it bluntly, who under the age of 30 knows anything about Poser? They are going to use DAZ, Blender, the Unreal Engine, Iclone, for pities sake check out those sites to see how they market. Then go look at Smith Micro and Poser and relive the 2000's vintage marketing. And DAZ is the reason Poser is dying? Really??

If you are creating your own content in Poser, good for you, keep using it. Just keep in mind the reality is that there isn't any new generation of users coming and attrition is hell.
They make clothes for V4? Why??
diogenese19348  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:43:38 PM(UTC)
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On the pirate issue, yeah, it's a huge problem and I don't have any answers. It's been around forever. All I can say is I've bought everything I use and I intend to keep doing so. If I ever come up with a way to stop pirating I'll let you know. Don't hold your breath waiting for me ;)
They make clothes for V4? Why??
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