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DeepSpace3D  
#1 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 7:39:49 AM(UTC)
DeepSpace3D

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Just some food for thought because I'm a bit surprised by the numbers as follows:


My Gotha Hunter character for G8M - sold a couple of dozen on this site and a similar amount elsewhere - not really worth the considerable effort that went into its production but hey, it was a useful learning exercise..


Freebie pose set for the above and G8F - 120+ and rising.


Does this mean folks are grabbing the freebie because:


a.  They intend to buy the product?


b.  They just like freebies, regardless of their use?


c.  They didn't buy the product, but got it from a warez site instead, so the poses will come in handy?


Answer (a) is my preferred option as a vendor, but (b) is also fine with me. Answer (c) really makes me angry, because they're basically stealing from me (and the sites I sell through).


Just thought I'd get that off my chest. Oh, and thanks to the folks who bought the product.


Korg  
#2 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 8:01:13 AM(UTC)
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Probably "B" as people can never have enough poses.


Bit sad if it's "C" though.


brookes  
#3 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 8:06:26 AM(UTC)
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I'm ashamed to admit that I was (notice the 'was') a prolific pirate for many decades and still watch the sites (and there's a lot of them)
and I'm positive that 'C' is why you don't sell many items while the free poses download like crazy.
I'm working on my first item for here and intend on asking bluntly in the pirate sites why people expect
to enjoy my hard work for nothing. I'm disappointed that the brokers (like this place) are doing nothing about
it all either. There used to be someone here called the 'Doc' ('The Doc?') who was everywhere with takedown notices.
As a result of his work, Renderotica stuff was never seen in the download or torrent sites. For the past two years,
Renderotica stuff has been as widely shared as any of the other items from Rendo or Daz3D.
While the mainstream sharing sites are bad enough, there are other sites where people pay to belong and download items
from all the sites. I've read on several sharing forums that the operators of these sites can make a couple of grand
a month. That's money out of your wallet. I'd love to see ALL the brokers get together and.... (a) Close down for a month or two
and not sell anything...(b) flood the sharing sites with messages about why this is happening and let downloaders know that
if this crap doesn't stop, there will be no new content.
They might also get together and issue takedown notices immediately an item appears. Stuff is normally shared
on download services like Mega.nz These folks will respond to copyright infringement notices. It won't eliminate all sharing
but the mainstream sites will disappear. Right now it's easy and quick to grab any new item.

DeepSpace3D  
#4 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 8:52:29 AM(UTC)
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Think I may look into that, Brookes. It was the poor sales that stopped me from producing more characters and clothing. From what I can see, the big sites like rendo and Daz still make enough cash (50% of every sale) to not be overly bothered by piracy. A great pity.
Mrduck  
#5 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 8:55:50 AM(UTC)
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I always appreciate freebies I purchased your gotha hunter at rendo just have not got a chance to buy your poses yet,
Korg  
#6 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 10:23:39 AM(UTC)
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I have your Moneyshotz-Facials set for G8F and it's excellent but would love to see a full face Bukkake type prop if that's in the pipeline.


Korg attached the following image(s):
af6df0b6fad583ebdb60389bef10de59.jpg
DeepSpace3D  
#7 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 11:09:09 AM(UTC)
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Mr Duck, Glad to have you as a customer. :) and I hope you liked the freebie.
Korg, thanks for the kind comments - I hope to have what your after in the next few weeks, hopefully before Christmas.
sumigo  
#8 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 11:28:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DeepSpace3D Go to Quoted Post
Mr Duck, Glad to have you as a customer. :) and I hope you liked the freebie.
Korg, thanks for the kind comments - I hope to have what your after in the next few weeks, hopefully before Christmas.


I like your work and will buy more, it's just I need to keep within budget and it's the holidays. I have Moneyshotz and some of your old alien models (serpatha tripod or something like that comes to mind) but have been looking at the new Genesis 8 character.


I think this is the way to go, doing morph sets over stand-alone models gets you the support of whatever generations auto follow as I'm sure you already know. 


 


Edit: Oh and I think its the freebie answer as well, no one is buying my for sale items even though they are heavily discounted right now but the freebies are still going strong. So people are finding me they just want the freebies.


 


 


 

Edited by user Monday, December 3, 2018 11:31:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: freebies

davo  
#9 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 12:31:57 PM(UTC)
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I followed some of my own products to a warez site. Followed their DCMA requirements( or whatever you call it) to have it removed. They did remove it, then somebody just reuploaded it all within a week. Another warez site had some of my products there as well. One of them even had people leaving comments.. "I love Davo's stuff, can't get enough of it, does anybody have his new set?"  Actually putting in requests for specific items.


I think it would be cool if when a product is distributed, a software program could inject a benign string of code straight into one of the jpg files (in the zip file) that had an identifier number related to purchase id number. That way it could be downloaded off the warez site and the purchaser identified and legal action taken.  I actually did that once long ago when I was selling items off my personal website. I altered one of the jpg texture maps to have a series of dots in the corner of an image, nobody would notice it. I recorded the series in a database I kept at home.  I warned people that I had done "something" to make every zip file unique.  Never saw that one item on the warez sites.  But, it was a manual process, not automated, and it became cumbersome for me, so I never did it again, then i started selling in the stores.  Damn.


 


simontemplar  
#10 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 3:06:28 PM(UTC)
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Personally I'm more of an A² person, meaning: I see a freebie meant to go with a product I don't have, take a look at how the freebie works (if it can be loaded individually) and if I like it, I'll go get the product whenever my wallet will let me do it withouth scowling at me in a deadly manner :)
"That was fun. Let's do it again."
SnarltheWerewolf  
#11 Posted : Monday, December 3, 2018 11:43:10 PM(UTC)
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While C definitely plays a role, I think B also plays a huge role. I think, also, that all the freebies showing up at the top of "Hot products" "Most Wanted" only makes them get downloaded even more.

I tend to download pretty much anything that's free because I can usually kit bash it later into something else.
Korg  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, December 4, 2018 3:52:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DeepSpace3D Go to Quoted Post
Mr Duck, Glad to have you as a customer. :) and I hope you liked the freebie.
Korg, thanks for the kind comments - I hope to have what your after in the next few weeks, hopefully before Christmas.


 


That's excellent. In a market flooded with clothing we need more products of quality like yours.


brookes  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:25:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post


I followed some of my own products to a warez site. Followed their DCMA requirements( or whatever you call it) to have it removed. They did remove it, then somebody just reuploaded it all within a week. Another warez site had some of my products there as well. One of them even had people leaving comments.. "I love Davo's stuff, can't get enough of it, does anybody have his new set?"  Actually putting in requests for specific items.


I think it would be cool if when a product is distributed, a software program could inject a benign string of code straight into one of the jpg files (in the zip file) that had an identifier number related to purchase id number. That way it could be downloaded off the warez site and the purchaser identified and legal action taken.  I actually did that once long ago when I was selling items off my personal website. I altered one of the jpg texture maps to have a series of dots in the corner of an image, nobody would notice it. I recorded the series in a database I kept at home.  I warned people that I had done "something" to make every zip file unique.  Never saw that one item on the warez sites.  But, it was a manual process, not automated, and it became cumbersome for me, so I never did it again, then i started selling in the stores.  Damn.



*Chuckle*  I know which site you're talking about.  Since KAT was taken down a couple of years ago it's become the main source for pirated items for Studio and Poser.  Al the other sharing sites feed off this one.  If you join it and read the forums, you'll see that they seem to feel entitled to free content and only occasionally will someone mention something about the effects of piracy.  A few even feel that it's their 'right' to get stuff for free.   If the brokerage sites (here, *deleted*, Daz3D) would get in there and issue takedowns, this site would die quickly.  There'd still be the private sites but I'm sure the volume of stolen content would decrease markedly since it wouldn't be as easy anymore.   There's been an uptake of trading in private Discord servers but after an initial flurry, it's almost died out.   I had a laugth when, several months ago it was revealed that the greedy, shortsighted and selfish asshole that runs this particular site was using it as a feed site for his private sharing site where he charged people to download.  This caused numerous posters of content to quite sharing and the volume of new items has dropped.  There's a lot of ego in these sites because they're populated by mostly talentless young creeps who have no life and are still living in their Mom's basement.


With regards to your attempt to track your files; I had this conversation a few years ago with one of the programmers at work.  She told me that it would be straight forward to write a Java script that would insert or alter a file each time it was requested for download.  She mentioned that there's some sort of character set that only shows up with special software and doesn't register even if you do size comparisons.  It wouldn't be cost effective to try and sue someone from Europe or Asia, but on your home turf of North America?...I'm sure the lawyers could have a field day with some file sharing creep.  Make it known in the sharing sites and you'd put the fear of (insert your favourite deity here) into the kids. 


By the way, where the heck IS the Doc?


While I've got your attention Davo, I want to thank you for almost two decades of truly sick and twisted toys to play with.  Now that I've got some time on my hands I'm working on my own line of Davo/Dolcett inspired goodies for Vicky Four to play with. 


Korg  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:32:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: davo Go to Quoted Post


I followed some of my own products to a warez site. Followed their DCMA requirements( or whatever you call it) to have it removed. They did remove it, then somebody just reuploaded it all within a week. Another warez site had some of my products there as well. One of them even had people leaving comments.. "I love Davo's stuff, can't get enough of it, does anybody have his new set?"  Actually putting in requests for specific items.


I think it would be cool if when a product is distributed, a software program could inject a benign string of code straight into one of the jpg files (in the zip file) that had an identifier number related to purchase id number. That way it could be downloaded off the warez site and the purchaser identified and legal action taken.  I actually did that once long ago when I was selling items off my personal website. I altered one of the jpg texture maps to have a series of dots in the corner of an image, nobody would notice it. I recorded the series in a database I kept at home.  I warned people that I had done "something" to make every zip file unique.  Never saw that one item on the warez sites.  But, it was a manual process, not automated, and it became cumbersome for me, so I never did it again, then i started selling in the stores.  Damn.


 



I do sympathize with you.


When I started with this hobby years ago I brought some of your excellent sets but if you typed "Davo Poser" into a search engine there was always the warez sites coming up. Personally I wouldn't go near them as if vendors take time and effort to create things why rip them off.


billyben  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:47:21 PM(UTC)
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Yep piracy sucks. 


I have purchased several of your items including the Vicki 8 expression series and some of your V8 pose sets.  Great products.  I noticed you are starting to do your interesting uniform series.  Will these have undress morphs?


Bill
I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused
Absinthe  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, December 4, 2018 3:04:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: brookes Go to Quoted Post


By the way, where the heck IS the Doc?



 


Doc is gravely ill and will likely not be returning.


 


Absinthe


cloudwatcher  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, December 4, 2018 8:02:47 PM(UTC)
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I've never pirated DAZ/Poser stuff, but I am an avid freebie hoarder. So I guess I tend to be more in the B camp. Most poses will work with figures other than the intended one with some tweaking, and since some tweaking is almost always necessary when using poses in a scene, if it seems like something with potential, I'll grab it whether I'm interested in the figure or not.


As for piracy, there's no real way to eliminate it although millions of dollars have been spent trying. If M$, Apple and RIAA can't manage it, I don't think the Renderotica community is going to figure it out.


But as far as warez sites go, all that's needed is a small agency (one person even) to go to DAZ, Smith Micro, *deleted*, etc. and offer to file takedown requests for a reasonable fixed fee, based on revenue lost. The problem is that it's too much work for vendors, but no one at the broker level is doing it either. 


Good luck getting all the brokers in the Poserverse to agree on anything, though!



brookes  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 8:34:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Absinthe Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: brookes Go to Quoted Post
By the way, where the heck IS the Doc?


Doc is gravely ill and will likely not be returning.


Absinthe



Jeezuz.  Please give him my best hopes for a speedy recovery.


drafter69  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 2:41:19 PM(UTC)
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For me the freebies are only of interest if I own the product......the last freebie I downloaded was L.I.E. Sound Punishment Overlays For G8M because I own the required product for it's use.
smanimation  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:15:51 PM(UTC)
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I'm guessing the poses would also work on other G8M characters and that would be another reason for the downloads. Is it worth giving out freebies is a big question and depends on what you expect in return. If the only reason for giving out free stuff is to make sales of a product, then it clearly didn't work well enough in this case. It seems to work better for others or they just like giving out free stuff, for any number of reasons. I gave away a few freebies, with only the thought that some one might find them useful and maybe getting to see them in some ones art. I work in manufacturing, there are endless debates about giving out free samples. On the other hand I have a garden and work shop at home and give out free stuff that I made or grew.... No really good answers as to is free stuff worth it. A guy I had given stuff to before just gave me some really good home made jam. Guess that's a part of giving away free stuff, getting free stuff from others.


 


The real question seems to be more about piracy. Before the internet I wrote software and ran a bbs. I always found the amount of pirated software people uploaded a bit shocking and that people would upload pirated copies of my software even more shocking. I also had some friends who ran pirate bbs's. There just seem to be a lot of people who have no moral problem with taking something that is not a physical object. I even knew several people who were morally offended that some one would charge money for something that was basically viewed by them as an idea and not something that should be morally charged for. Theft is always a problem in any kind of business. Taking a physical object is clearly costing some one something, the loss of the item, the cost to replace, ect. The 'theft' of IP leaves a lot less clear view of what you have deprived the owner of, you have simply made a copy of something they still have... The whole thing about the time, effort and costs to come up with the IP are a lot harder to picture and is harder to feel like you have deprived the person of something. I did a video to be used in a trade show. When the customer found out I did it at home and not a commercial office, he went nuts about paying me for a 'hobby' thing I did at home in my free time. I told him no hard feelings, he should go get some one with an office to do the video. In the end he was offended, but paid. That's harder to do when the files are already out there and you are trying to sell more then one copy to recover your costs and maybe make a little money. People have funny lines between what they feel should be free and what should be paid for. Then there are lots of people who will just take what ever they think they can get away with...


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