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SloaneInEden  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2019 9:36:32 PM(UTC)
SloaneInEden

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Heya,

So I got a taste of this stuff like... forever ago (think V3 era). It really didn't seem to be up to the task of making the sort of pictures I had in mind... but it looks like that may have changed. kiss

I have a million questions, probably a lot of them that have been asked a million times. So, is there a beginners guide/FAQ kinda thing, or should I just embarrass myself a million times?

I'm probably going to be using DAZ|Studio (or whatever it's called now), unless the interface has changed a lot or they charge more for it than Poser.

I'm mostly wanting to learn to use the software to do the art for my book covers. So... nothing explicit but I see the naughty bits are looking pretty good these days so I'd like to learn how that stuff works, just because that's how I am. Okay, you got me I would love to try making naughty animations. There, I've said it.

I'm hoping facial expressions have advanced, because that was one of the main reasons I lost interest before. If you liked the "bored look" that was easy, everything else looked wrong or creepy (or both).

I don't want to invest in learning a character just to have support for it get shelved when the next big thing comes along. Does that still happen? What character should a newbie be investing in?

I remember clothing was for one character and unless it was super basic (like a hat) you couldn't make it fit a different figure, is that still a "feature"?

I'm kinda interested in doing some 3D printing, how are yge meshes of today in that regard? I know someone that had talked about using a Daz character but finally gave up because it needed too many vertice faces flipped or some such... any chance it works better now?

Well, there's the tip of the iceberg. If anyone can help me understand the current landscape I would be appreciative. woot
matt  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2019 1:25:53 AM(UTC)
matt

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The render engines have come a long way since V3. Poser uses SuperFly and Studio uses Iray and 3Delight. I personally use Iray. Studio is free, currently on version 4.10. I basically quit Poser cold turkey two years ago.


Yes, the current genitalia selection is pretty incredible. I mostly use Futalicious, Dicktator, and Golden Palace from Meipe, as well as NGV7 and NGV8 from 3feetwolf, but the standard DAZ Gens that you get with the ProPacks is pretty good once you get some morph packs for them. I recently picked up XY and XXY from DB XXX, but I haven't messed with them that much yet. They look promising though. I gotta say though, that Meipe's offerings with all of the morph capabilities are pretty astounding. From a micropenis to a horse cock, they can do it all. He(she?) is also one of the most supportive and communicative vendors on 'rotica.


As it sits right now, if you download Studio you'll get Genesis 3 and 8. I'd look at picking up add-ons for both, but the landscape is shifting more to G8 exclusive every day, so focus on those figures. What's great though is that clothing for one can be made to fit the others, both male and female. G3 to G8 is native inside Studio, and DAZ has clothing converters to go backwards. Some outfits translate better than others, but a male shirt or pants on a female figure is only a few clicks, and autofit deals with most poke through, even on morphed characters. You also have the ability to add smoothing and collision detection to clothing, and dial them up and down as needed. I remember the days in Poser when I'd spend hours or days getting a nude figure to look just right and then realizing that I couldn't dress her, because the clothing didn't have matching morphs. The fitting room in Poser is supposed to address that now, but like I said I abandoned it a couple of years ago and can't comment directly on that.  And Poser still has no answer to geografts. 


I used to rail against DAZ for abandoning Poser users, considering that Poser is the only reason they existed in the first place. But after a few years of that, and looking at all of the possibilities that Studio would open up for me, I realized that if I was going to continue this hobby I'd also have to evolve, so I cracked and started learning the interface. I do not regret it. After 16 years of being a die hard Poser user, I'm now a die hard Studio user.


I can't comment on 3D printing a figure, I've never tried it and doubt I will, but it would be pretty neat.


thanks 1 user thanked matt for this useful post.
banditcameraman on 1/13/2019(UTC)
SloaneInEden  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2019 3:54:55 AM(UTC)
SloaneInEden

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Wow... I understood almost half of that, this is gonna be a breeze! derp

I know there will be a learning curve, there was the last time and it's been over 10 years. I think I got suckered in with A3 complete on a 3DWorld disc.

Probably the biggest question I have is what's with G3/G8? It's good to know which one is the favourite, but it's odd numbering from what I've been able to piece together. What kind of shelf life does the current crop have? That's my main concern, I remember how addictive it is getting new content.

Also... not sure how to put this... a lot of the renders I see look kinda dark (not mood, actually dark) and many look flat, almost like the skin is chalky. Does that make any sense? I've seen some renders that look amazing and others that look like a lighting and/or materials tutorial would help. Is it a style that's popular? Is it because I'm on my phone? Am I just being a twat giving a critique on something I don't understand?
sumigo  
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2019 11:29:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SloaneInEden Go to Quoted Post
Wow... I understood almost half of that, this is gonna be a breeze! derp

I know there will be a learning curve, there was the last time and it's been over 10 years. I think I got suckered in with A3 complete on a 3DWorld disc.

Probably the biggest question I have is what's with G3/G8? It's good to know which one is the
favourite, but it's odd numbering from what I've been able to piece together. What kind of shelf life does the current crop have? That's my main concern, I remember how addictive it is getting new content.

Also... not sure how to put this... a lot of the renders I see look kinda dark (not mood, actually dark) and many look flat, almost like the skin is chalky. Does that make any sense? I've seen some renders that look amazing and others that look like
a lighting and/or materials tutorial would help. Is it a style that's popular? Is it because I'm on my phone? Am I just being a twat giving a critique on something I don't understand?


 


The numbering of the Genesis generations goes like this:


 


Victoria/Michael 4 were M4 and V4 respectively


Michael and Vic 5 were Genesis (no numbers next to it)


Michael and Vic 6 were Genesis 2


Michael and Vic 7 were Genesis 3


But after that DAZ decided their numbering system was confusing and standardized it so the next generation went like this:


Michael and Vic 8 were Genesis 8


Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9.


 


Michael and Vic 4 came out in 2009


Michael and Vic 5 came out in 2011


Michael and Vic 6 came out in 2013


Michael and Vic 7 came out in 2015


Michael and Vic 8 came out in 2017


So we're looking at a new Generation soon.


 


 

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banditcameraman on 1/13/2019(UTC)
matt  
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2019 11:43:40 AM(UTC)
matt

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Originally Posted by: SloaneInEden Go to Quoted Post
Wow... I understood almost half of that, this is gonna be a breeze! derp

I know there will be a learning curve, there was the last time and it's been over 10 years. I think I got suckered in with A3 complete on a 3DWorld disc.

Probably the biggest question I have is what's with G3/G8? It's good to know which one is the favourite, but it's odd numbering from what I've been able to piece together. What kind of shelf life does the current crop have? That's my main concern, I remember how addictive it is getting new content.

Also... not sure how to put this... a lot of the renders I see look kinda dark (not mood, actually dark) and many look flat, almost like the skin is chalky. Does that make any sense? I've seen some renders that look amazing and others that look like a lighting and/or materials tutorial would help. Is it a style that's popular? Is it because I'm on my phone? Am I just being a twat giving a critique on something I don't understand?


You're not alone in wondering why they went from 3 to 8. The best explanation I heard was they wanted to get their figure numbers in line with the character numbers, so now it's Victoria 8=Genesis 8. I'd say we have about another 8 months to a year before Genesis 9 comes out, so G8 is the one to really get content for right now. I have literally thousands of dollars in content for G3, and am slowly adding G8 stuff. I figure I'll be about caught up when G9 drops, so I'll have to start again, which is just how DAZ wants it, LOL.


The look and quality of a render really all boils down to lighting, lighting, and maybe lighting. And some renders have been heavily postworked in Photoshop with filters, so those will look better than one that has not, depending on the skill of the artist. Take a look at YouTube, there are so many tutorial videos on lighting in Studio that it's almost overwhelming. There's a content creator named SickleYield that has put together some great videos on how to set up lights, she's easy to follow and understand and I highly recommend her, the lighting in Studio is very different than in Poser so I would have a look at her videos before you try to tackle it. The learning curve will be much easier. There are also a ton of videos that just go over the basics in Studio, where to find stuff, how it works, and so on. I made a tutorial thread the other day about how to manually install your content to Studio, since improper install seems to be a common problem. You might want to have a look at that also.


www.renderotica.com/community/forums.aspx?g=posts&t=218553&cmsg=0&cmsn=#post424868


mjw  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2019 12:08:14 PM(UTC)
mjw

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Sumigo said "Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9."
I am really hoping they won't! I have been starting to find that I can do a lot with G3, and more with G8, but the simplicity is considerably less for G8 if you want to alter (say) skins and the like. Beautiful figures, very realistic, are possible, but much more difficult to manage, and more hungry of memory I suspect. SO I am happy to wait for 9 until the computers are powerful enough at a reasonable price (ie not thousands) for me to get the NVidia graphics in a decent package.
SloaneInEden  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2019 1:41:15 PM(UTC)
SloaneInEden

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Hey, thanks everyone, that helps a lot.

I noticed no one touched the facial expression part... is it because anything beyond a slight grin starts to look... weird?

I know it's possible, somehow, for 3D models to have decent facial expressions, you can see them in major studio released movies, though they tend to be toony and not realistic. But they're still working with a polygon mesh, right?
matt  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2019 1:57:17 PM(UTC)
matt

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Originally Posted by: SloaneInEden Go to Quoted Post
Hey, thanks everyone, that helps a lot.

I noticed no one touched the facial expression part... is it because anything beyond a slight grin starts to look... weird?

I know it's possible, somehow, for 3D models to have decent facial expressions, you can see them in major studio released movies, though they tend to be toony and not realistic. But they're still working with a polygon mesh, right?


It really depends on the expression. The current crop of figures are actually much better with expressions than, say, V3 or V4. Most expressions work pretty well now. That being said, depending on the character's face shape and other morphs, some will work better than others on one character, whereas the same expression won't work as well on another. But, there are so many facial morphs available now that any undesirable results can usually be tweaked to get what you're looking for.


Zaavaleta  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2019 6:31:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mjw Go to Quoted Post
Sumigo said "Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9."
I am really hoping they won't! I have been starting to find that I can do a lot with G3, and more with G8, but the simplicity is considerably less for G8 if you want to alter (say) skins and the like. Beautiful figures, very realistic, are possible, but much more difficult to manage, and more hungry of memory I suspect. SO I am happy to wait for 9 until the computers are powerful enough at a reasonable price (ie not thousands) for me to get the NVidia graphics in a decent package.


I may have some bad news for you. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2734311/ It looks like they are pretty comfortable with their 2 year release schedule. The good news is that the older generations get cheaper as the new ones come out. I've saved a bunch of money by sticking to G3. As long as I have auto-fit and clothing clones, etc, I don't really need to upgrade just yet, the G3 figures still look pretty good.


I don't know if GPU prices are going to come down any time soon. I think the best thing for us all would be more renderers that support AMD GPUs, then at least we'll have some competition in the market.

thanks 1 user thanked Zaavaleta for this useful post.
mjw on 1/15/2019(UTC)
matt  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2019 8:14:17 PM(UTC)
matt

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Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


I may have some bad news for you. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2734311/ It looks like they are pretty comfortable with their 2 year release schedule. The good news is that the older generations get cheaper as the new ones come out. I've saved a bunch of money by sticking to G3. As long as I have auto-fit and clothing clones, etc, I don't really need to upgrade just yet, the G3 figures still look pretty good.


I don't know if GPU prices are going to come down any time soon. I think the best thing for us all would be more renderers that support AMD GPUs, then at least we'll have some competition in the market.


Originally Posted by: mjw Go to Quoted Post
Sumigo said "Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9."
I am really hoping they won't! I have been starting to find that I can do a lot with G3, and more with G8, but the simplicity is considerably less for G8 if you want to alter (say) skins and the like. Beautiful figures, very realistic, are possible, but much more difficult to manage, and more hungry of memory I suspect. SO I am happy to wait for 9 until the computers are powerful enough at a reasonable price (ie not thousands) for me to get the NVidia graphics in a decent package.


FWIW, Nvidia is releasing/just released the RDX 2060, which is supposed to retail for $349. That's about half of what I paid for my GTX1080.


Zaavaleta  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2019 2:51:49 PM(UTC)
Zaavaleta

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Originally Posted by: matt Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


I may have some bad news for you. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2734311/ It looks like they are pretty comfortable with their 2 year release schedule. The good news is that the older generations get cheaper as the new ones come out. I've saved a bunch of money by sticking to G3. As long as I have auto-fit and clothing clones, etc, I don't really need to upgrade just yet, the G3 figures still look pretty good.


I don't know if GPU prices are going to come down any time soon. I think the best thing for us all would be more renderers that support AMD GPUs, then at least we'll have some competition in the market.


Originally Posted by: mjw Go to Quoted Post
Sumigo said "Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9."
I am really hoping they won't! I have been starting to find that I can do a lot with G3, and more with G8, but the simplicity is considerably less for G8 if you want to alter (say) skins and the like. Beautiful figures, very realistic, are possible, but much more difficult to manage, and more hungry of memory I suspect. SO I am happy to wait for 9 until the computers are powerful enough at a reasonable price (ie not thousands) for me to get the NVidia graphics in a decent package.


FWIW, Nvidia is releasing/just released the RDX 2060, which is supposed to retail for $349. That's about half of what I paid for my GTX1080.



If I do buy a card in the near future, it looks like I'll have to go with a 6 or 8 Gb model. Those 11Gb cards are highway robbery. I'm seriously thinking of switching to Reality/Luxrender for my renders. AMD has some decent cards and at least I won't be caught up in Nvidia's "Fuck you, pay me" business model. So much for a relaxing hobby.


brookes  
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2019 5:44:01 AM(UTC)
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I feel that the jump from G3 to G8 was nothing more than a marketing ploy. Folks expect the next one to be G4 which would give the impression of nothing more than an incremental update and possibly not worth investing. Making the leap all the way to 8 makes people think that she's a huge and massive leap and that they HAVE TO buy her and all her clothes and characters and accessories. Daz3D has to constantly sell stuff to offset the cost of providing Studio for free, which is also the reason for not providing free tutorials or instruction. They also have to dissuade people from learning how to make their own content and of course, try to kill off any competition.
sumigo  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2019 11:16:15 AM(UTC)
sumigo

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Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: matt Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


I may have some bad news for you. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2734311/ It looks like they are pretty comfortable with their 2 year release schedule. The good news is that the older generations get cheaper as the new ones come out. I've saved a bunch of money by sticking to G3. As long as I have auto-fit and clothing clones, etc, I don't really need to upgrade just yet, the G3 figures still look pretty good.


I don't know if GPU prices are going to come down any time soon. I think the best thing for us all would be more renderers that support AMD GPUs, then at least we'll have some competition in the market.


Originally Posted by: mjw Go to Quoted Post
Sumigo said "Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9."
I am really hoping they won't! I have been starting to find that I can do a lot with G3, and more with G8, but the simplicity is considerably less for G8 if you want to alter (say) skins and the like. Beautiful figures, very realistic, are possible, but much more difficult to manage, and more hungry of memory I suspect. SO I am happy to wait for 9 until the computers are powerful enough at a reasonable price (ie not thousands) for me to get the NVidia graphics in a decent package.


FWIW, Nvidia is releasing/just released the RDX 2060, which is supposed to retail for $349. That's about half of what I paid for my GTX1080.



If I do buy a card in the near future, it looks like I'll have to go with a 6 or 8 Gb model. Those 11Gb cards are highway robbery. I'm seriously thinking of switching to Reality/Luxrender for my renders. AMD has some decent cards and at least I won't be caught up in Nvidia's "Fuck you, pay me" business model. So much for a relaxing hobby.



Yeah this is a bad time to buy a graphics card, there's no doubt and Nvidia is being crappy, they should have dropped prices on all the 1XXX generation of cards, but that's not happening, their prices are holding or increasing while the 2XXX series is really overpriced. I too hope to see something happen with the new AMD cards but they have yet to post benchmarks and it's the first generation of their nanometer process so there will be bugs. But there has to be more than just that, AMD need's to work closer with a render engine or make their own as Nvidia has done with Iray and Vray. If they had their own optimized render engine, for their cards, that would be huge for them and open up a new market while also releasing the stranglehold Nvidia has right now in the render marketplace.


If I were them I would partner with Lux or Blender or another render engine developer, or as I said above work on their own. 


As for the 11 gb cards, I got a 1080 ti like you have right when the 2080 ti's came out but in that period where the prices briefly dropped below $700 before shooting up to the price they are now.


 


 


Zaavaleta  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2019 12:40:14 PM(UTC)
Zaavaleta

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Originally Posted by: sumigo Go to Quoted Post


Yeah this is a bad time to buy a graphics card, there's no doubt and Nvidia is being crappy, they should have dropped prices on all the 1XXX generation of cards, but that's not happening, their prices are holding or increasing while the 2XXX series is really overpriced. I too hope to see something happen with the new AMD cards but they have yet to post benchmarks and it's the first generation of their nanometer process so there will be bugs. But there has to be more than just that, AMD need's to work closer with a render engine or make their own as Nvidia has done with Iray and Vray. If they had their own optimized render engine, for their cards, that would be huge for them and open up a new market while also releasing the stranglehold Nvidia has right now in the render marketplace.


If I were them I would partner with Lux or Blender or another render engine developer, or as I said above work on their own. 


As for the 11 gb cards, I got a 1080 ti like you have right when the 2080 ti's came out but in that period where the prices briefly dropped below $700 before shooting up to the price they are now.



Nvidia just had a couple of kickass years and their shareholders are expecting them to keep the money rolling in. That's probably why they discontinued the 10 series right after the 20's came out. Now that they've got most of the market hooked on DS/Iray, Octane and Cycles(Iray version)  it's time to tighten the screws and put out more expensive cards. Despite all that feelgood talk about AI and self driving cars powered by unicorn jizz, their main responsibility is to increase shareholder value.


At this point, I'd be willing to buy a less powerful AMD card just to get out of the Ngreedia money mill. Some people call me a cynic.


matt  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:21:16 PM(UTC)
matt

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Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: sumigo Go to Quoted Post


Yeah this is a bad time to buy a graphics card, there's no doubt and Nvidia is being crappy, they should have dropped prices on all the 1XXX generation of cards, but that's not happening, their prices are holding or increasing while the 2XXX series is really overpriced. I too hope to see something happen with the new AMD cards but they have yet to post benchmarks and it's the first generation of their nanometer process so there will be bugs. But there has to be more than just that, AMD need's to work closer with a render engine or make their own as Nvidia has done with Iray and Vray. If they had their own optimized render engine, for their cards, that would be huge for them and open up a new market while also releasing the stranglehold Nvidia has right now in the render marketplace.


If I were them I would partner with Lux or Blender or another render engine developer, or as I said above work on their own. 


As for the 11 gb cards, I got a 1080 ti like you have right when the 2080 ti's came out but in that period where the prices briefly dropped below $700 before shooting up to the price they are now.



Nvidia just had a couple of kickass years and their shareholders are expecting them to keep the money rolling in. That's probably why they discontinued the 10 series right after the 20's came out. Now that they've got most of the market hooked on DS/Iray, Octane and Cycles(Iray version)  it's time to tighten the screws and put out more expensive cards. Despite all that feelgood talk about AI and self driving cars powered by unicorn jizz, their main responsibility is to increase shareholder value.


At this point, I'd be willing to buy a less powerful AMD card just to get out of the Ngreedia money mill. Some people call me a cynic.


Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: matt Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Zaavaleta Go to Quoted Post


I may have some bad news for you. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2734311/ It looks like they are pretty comfortable with their 2 year release schedule. The good news is that the older generations get cheaper as the new ones come out. I've saved a bunch of money by sticking to G3. As long as I have auto-fit and clothing clones, etc, I don't really need to upgrade just yet, the G3 figures still look pretty good.


I don't know if GPU prices are going to come down any time soon. I think the best thing for us all would be more renderers that support AMD GPUs, then at least we'll have some competition in the market.


Originally Posted by: mjw Go to Quoted Post
Sumigo said "Furthermore, they are on a 2-year release cycle and the next Generation is about 6 months out with what is probably going to be Genesis 9 and will most likely be introduced with Victoria 9."
I am really hoping they won't! I have been starting to find that I can do a lot with G3, and more with G8, but the simplicity is considerably less for G8 if you want to alter (say) skins and the like. Beautiful figures, very realistic, are possible, but much more difficult to manage, and more hungry of memory I suspect. SO I am happy to wait for 9 until the computers are powerful enough at a reasonable price (ie not thousands) for me to get the NVidia graphics in a decent package.


FWIW, Nvidia is releasing/just released the RDX 2060, which is supposed to retail for $349. That's about half of what I paid for my GTX1080.



If I do buy a card in the near future, it looks like I'll have to go with a 6 or 8 Gb model. Those 11Gb cards are highway robbery. I'm seriously thinking of switching to Reality/Luxrender for my renders. AMD has some decent cards and at least I won't be caught up in Nvidia's "Fuck you, pay me" business model. So much for a relaxing hobby.



My 1080 is an 8GB, and believe me it renders well and pretty fast, way faster than the GTX 680 that it replaced.


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